Bob Lutz hints on 7/11/09: Camaro Z28 is dead.
07-11-2009, 11:41 AM
#1
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bob Lutz hints on 7/11/09: Camaro Z28 is dead. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/11/l...u-s-z28-likel/
BREAKING: Lutz says Pontiac G8 to survive as Chevy Caprice in U.S.; Camaro Z28 reportedly dead
BREAKING: Lutz says Pontiac G8 to survive as Chevy Caprice in U.S.; Camaro Z28 reportedly dead
Bob Lutz is back, and after what seems like five minutes into his job as GM's new marketing kingpin, he's doing what he does best: making headlines. Rest assured that this is a good thing, as El Generalissimo Roberto Maximo told Automobile Magazine that yes, the Pontiac G8 will live on in the United States as the Chevy Caprice. So much for Fritz "I'm not a fan of rebadging" Henderson's statement to the contrary a couple of weeks ago.
"The last time we looked at [the G8], we decided that we would continue to import it as a Chevrolet. It is kind of too good to waste," Lutz told the mag. As for the G8 being "too good to waste": Amen to that, Bob. This also makes us wonder if law enforcement-grade models will be part of the deal with Holden to continue production. Chevy Caprice police cars? That's got a very familiar ring to it. The next question is whether a U.S. Caprice would mimic the Middle East-market Caprice, which is based on the long-wheelbase Holden Caprice/Statesman, or whether it will simply be a Chevy-badged version of the standard-wheelbase Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8/Chevrolet Lumina. Frankly, as long as there's ultimately a Caprice SS that is identical to the Pontiac G8 GXP in every critical way, we don't care.
In his conversation with Automobile, Lutz also essentially confirms that next year's Cadillac CTS coupe will be joined by a V-series variant, saying that the CTS-V coupe was the car that had most of the Presidential Task Force members' tongues wagging during the product-pipeline tour they were given by GM. Lutz even hints that a CTS-V wagon is not completely out of the question. (We'll take the wagon in brown, with the stick, Bob.)
On the bad news side, in a separate blog post, Automobile reports that Lutz kind of throws dirt on the idea of an LSA-powered Camaro Z28 (though he doesn't specifically state that the program's toast). He says that for "mainstream" sports models like the Camaro, powerful sixes (like the one in the Camaro LS and LT) and turbo fours (like the one used in the now-dead Cobalt SS, HHR SS and Solstice GXP) are more indicitive of the automaker's future direction in that regard. Hmmm. Well then, how about bolting a blower to the direct-injected V6?
Welcome back, Bob. This sounds like it could get pretty fun.
"The last time we looked at [the G8], we decided that we would continue to import it as a Chevrolet. It is kind of too good to waste," Lutz told the mag. As for the G8 being "too good to waste": Amen to that, Bob. This also makes us wonder if law enforcement-grade models will be part of the deal with Holden to continue production. Chevy Caprice police cars? That's got a very familiar ring to it. The next question is whether a U.S. Caprice would mimic the Middle East-market Caprice, which is based on the long-wheelbase Holden Caprice/Statesman, or whether it will simply be a Chevy-badged version of the standard-wheelbase Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8/Chevrolet Lumina. Frankly, as long as there's ultimately a Caprice SS that is identical to the Pontiac G8 GXP in every critical way, we don't care.
In his conversation with Automobile, Lutz also essentially confirms that next year's Cadillac CTS coupe will be joined by a V-series variant, saying that the CTS-V coupe was the car that had most of the Presidential Task Force members' tongues wagging during the product-pipeline tour they were given by GM. Lutz even hints that a CTS-V wagon is not completely out of the question. (We'll take the wagon in brown, with the stick, Bob.)
On the bad news side, in a separate blog post, Automobile reports that Lutz kind of throws dirt on the idea of an LSA-powered Camaro Z28 (though he doesn't specifically state that the program's toast). He says that for "mainstream" sports models like the Camaro, powerful sixes (like the one in the Camaro LS and LT) and turbo fours (like the one used in the now-dead Cobalt SS, HHR SS and Solstice GXP) are more indicitive of the automaker's future direction in that regard. Hmmm. Well then, how about bolting a blower to the direct-injected V6?
Welcome back, Bob. This sounds like it could get pretty fun.
Last edited by 427C5; 07-11-2009 at 11:47 AM.
07-11-2009, 02:42 PM
#4
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sucks, but it's not that big of a deal.
Just put a supercharger on the LS3 Camaro yourself. The Techco 3.0 liter twin screw will make the same power as the LSA/LS9 on a stock LS3 .....AND with lower intake temps and STILL give you the option of making up to 1000hp in the future.
The high compression of the LS3 will make the throttle more "snappy" than a low compression LSA and you can make the same power to the wheels.
The LS3 with boost that makes the same power as the LSA can be just as reliable as long as you have a PRO LSx expert do a custom tune and make sure your fuel system is up to the job.
It might not be popular in this forum, and I obviously want BOTH.......
But, I'd rather see the Zeta sedan saved instead of the Z28 if I HAD to choose.
It's a lot easier to mod the Camaro for more performance than it is to add the 2 extra doors and more interior/trunk space that the Zeta sedan offers.
Just put a supercharger on the LS3 Camaro yourself. The Techco 3.0 liter twin screw will make the same power as the LSA/LS9 on a stock LS3 .....AND with lower intake temps and STILL give you the option of making up to 1000hp in the future.
The high compression of the LS3 will make the throttle more "snappy" than a low compression LSA and you can make the same power to the wheels.
The LS3 with boost that makes the same power as the LSA can be just as reliable as long as you have a PRO LSx expert do a custom tune and make sure your fuel system is up to the job.
It might not be popular in this forum, and I obviously want BOTH.......
But, I'd rather see the Zeta sedan saved instead of the Z28 if I HAD to choose.
It's a lot easier to mod the Camaro for more performance than it is to add the 2 extra doors and more interior/trunk space that the Zeta sedan offers.
Last edited by 427C5; 07-11-2009 at 02:47 PM.
07-11-2009, 03:19 PM
#5
TECH Regular
The Z28 motor MUST have a strong bottom end that is comparable to the GT500 and 03/04 'bras. I would rather see a forged direct injected LS3 than the hypereutectic piston LSA.
All Bob is saying that GM has no plans for a LSA Camaro. We will see whats up their sleeves. A light weight Camaro with a DI LS3 could wave the gas guzzler tax.
All Bob is saying that GM has no plans for a LSA Camaro. We will see whats up their sleeves. A light weight Camaro with a DI LS3 could wave the gas guzzler tax.
07-11-2009, 03:33 PM
#6
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not worried about adding power. I want LSx powered cars that have LOW curb weight (C6) or a lot of utility (G8, CTS).
I really want a AWD sedan with LSx power.
Trending Topics
07-11-2009, 08:12 PM
#8
TECH Regular
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: CHICAGO BURBS
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Has their been any mention of a DI LS3 yet? I could only imagine what kind of extra power they could get out of it. Better yet, LS7 and LS9 with DI. I'd like to see Ferrari and Lambo try and counter a 700 hp+ ZR1.
07-11-2009, 10:17 PM
#9
Launching!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm no marketing genius, but I think the Z28 will come out.
Z28 logo is WAY TOO STRONG to leave on the table.
I think this is Lutz's plan:
"...no Z28.. so buy a Camaro SS today".....then when Camaro sales start to fall then release Z28 ....then when that starts to fall, release Z28 SS.....and on it goes....
Me, I'm NOT go to buy a Camaro SS now which many dealers are asking premiums (just like the 2005 Mustang GT) When they start discounting off of MSRP I'll think about it again...
CTSV coupe will be out in 2010...maybe I'll get a used 2009 CTSV for $41k in 18months from now....maybe a 2008 GT500 for $27k....may choices...
I know one thing in my no rush to OVER pay for a performance vehicle.
My current performance $ baseline: $23k for a 400hp, 0to60 in 4.0s, 11.97 @ 118.8..................the car >>>>> 2004 Z06
bring me a car that even comes close to 4.0s for $23k and has GREAT handling and I'll add it to my list....
jerrycecco
2004 CTSV
Z28 logo is WAY TOO STRONG to leave on the table.
I think this is Lutz's plan:
"...no Z28.. so buy a Camaro SS today".....then when Camaro sales start to fall then release Z28 ....then when that starts to fall, release Z28 SS.....and on it goes....
Me, I'm NOT go to buy a Camaro SS now which many dealers are asking premiums (just like the 2005 Mustang GT) When they start discounting off of MSRP I'll think about it again...
CTSV coupe will be out in 2010...maybe I'll get a used 2009 CTSV for $41k in 18months from now....maybe a 2008 GT500 for $27k....may choices...
I know one thing in my no rush to OVER pay for a performance vehicle.
My current performance $ baseline: $23k for a 400hp, 0to60 in 4.0s, 11.97 @ 118.8..................the car >>>>> 2004 Z06
bring me a car that even comes close to 4.0s for $23k and has GREAT handling and I'll add it to my list....
jerrycecco
2004 CTSV
07-12-2009, 06:30 AM
#10
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/11/l...u-s-z28-likel/
BREAKING: Lutz says Pontiac G8 to survive as Chevy Caprice in U.S.; Camaro Z28 reportedly dead
BREAKING: Lutz says Pontiac G8 to survive as Chevy Caprice in U.S.; Camaro Z28 reportedly dead
You've been all over Tech lately. Especially with that 'Techco' tone, but none the less, I'll play along.
The Z is dead, good riddance. With Obama Motors running the scene, don't expect any more gains of horsepower over the next (at least) 15 years. Try to think of this as late 1969.The new Mustang released 4 years ago, horsepower wars like we've never seen, deep into a war we can't win, and soon into a recession we won't recover from for 30 years.
Here's hoping Chevy brings out a new Vega to stuff small block LSX motors into.
07-12-2009, 06:35 AM
#11
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not to mention, I've not heard a single thing about ANY existing Pontiac platforms continuing that don't already have similar platforms in the Chevy stable. G8 into a Caprice? That's about as likely as a UTE coming over as a El Camino or a GTO coming back as a Chevelle. Honestly, what market does that appeal to that BMW and Mercedes and Audi and Volvo haven't responded to for years before GM got into this market a fragile 4 years ago?
Edit: Oh wait, it's called a CTS-V. Nevermind.
Edit: Oh wait, it's called a CTS-V. Nevermind.
Last edited by ReedBooth; 07-12-2009 at 07:19 AM.
07-14-2009, 04:41 AM
#12
TECH Regular
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Arlington, TN
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's sad that GM may not produce the Z28 (or produce it with a LSA power plant). I could see where this would compete against a CTS-V Coupe though. The only difference between the 2 would be one is retro (Camaro) an the other costs 20k more (Caddy).
I'm happy to hear the G8 will carry over as the Caprice. I wonder will GM keep the Impala line (as the Malibu line can handle every thing the Impala line has except for the 5.3L SS).
Some old information on gm's Direct Injection V8's.
The original DI 6.2L prototype (back in late 07/early 08) put down 50 more hp (480-vs-430) over the non DI L92.
Truck Manifold, Head ports, injector size, cam, and everything else about the motor were suppose to be identical (including AFM and VVT).
At that time GM had stated they wanted to wait until the Gen V blocks were available before releasing direct injection into the small block V8 lineup.
Question: What improvements can GM make to the LS3/9 block to create a Gen V small block V-8?
I could see the 6 bolt head pattern from the LSX line.
Or maybe stronger cylinder liners to handle boost better (from the LSA or LS9 super chargers as well as aftermarket).
Or maybe a girdle in the base of the block where the mains connect to reduce torque twist in high HP applications (1000+).
Or maybe all 3... That would be a block worthy of replacing the Gen IV blocks, wouldn't it?
I'm happy to hear the G8 will carry over as the Caprice. I wonder will GM keep the Impala line (as the Malibu line can handle every thing the Impala line has except for the 5.3L SS).
Some old information on gm's Direct Injection V8's.
The original DI 6.2L prototype (back in late 07/early 08) put down 50 more hp (480-vs-430) over the non DI L92.
Truck Manifold, Head ports, injector size, cam, and everything else about the motor were suppose to be identical (including AFM and VVT).
At that time GM had stated they wanted to wait until the Gen V blocks were available before releasing direct injection into the small block V8 lineup.
Question: What improvements can GM make to the LS3/9 block to create a Gen V small block V-8?
I could see the 6 bolt head pattern from the LSX line.
Or maybe stronger cylinder liners to handle boost better (from the LSA or LS9 super chargers as well as aftermarket).
Or maybe a girdle in the base of the block where the mains connect to reduce torque twist in high HP applications (1000+).
Or maybe all 3... That would be a block worthy of replacing the Gen IV blocks, wouldn't it?
07-14-2009, 02:23 PM
#14
Glad to see the G8 living on. I think that a standard LS3 CTS would sell well and would complement the V6 and V nicely in the middle. Plus a N/A V8 wagon would also sell nicely imo.
He must be smoking crack to think a turbo 4 cylinder camaro will sell. Maybe if they re-design the whole car again to wheigh somewhere in the 2800-3000lb range and have it compete with the Genesis coupe...but look how well thats selling in the 2.0T, everyone here wants the 3.8. And I actually like the idea of turbo 4 cylinders, just not in a 4400lb car.
He must be smoking crack to think a turbo 4 cylinder camaro will sell. Maybe if they re-design the whole car again to wheigh somewhere in the 2800-3000lb range and have it compete with the Genesis coupe...but look how well thats selling in the 2.0T, everyone here wants the 3.8. And I actually like the idea of turbo 4 cylinders, just not in a 4400lb car.
07-21-2009, 09:19 PM
#15
Teching In
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the biggest problem will be is .whoever is in charge of the performance line has to convince the top brass that the z28 will be a seller.and right now thats a big chance.i have 2 shelby gt500s and i know if they make a z28 i will own one .that would be awsome couple of shelbys and a z28.
07-22-2009, 02:59 PM
#16
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-22-2009, 03:25 PM
#17
Staging Lane
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, Tejas
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The mustang is paid for this year and I'll be in the higher-hp/torque range sedan market. Good news they're hanging on to the G8 but an AWD, 425hp sedan for less than or around $40k would be REALLY hard to pass up!
07-22-2009, 05:25 PM
#19
TECH Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the new SHO would almost fit the bill, couple mods and you'd have it
07-22-2009, 10:43 PM
#20
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The new SHO ia a FAT and SLOW piece of ****.
I have a 2007+ Infiniti AWD g35x that weighs under 3,800lbs and runs 13.9 at 100mph. I'd suggest the Infiniti over the F*ORD SHO and even the new Caddy CTS4.
I have a 2007+ Infiniti AWD g35x that weighs under 3,800lbs and runs 13.9 at 100mph. I'd suggest the Infiniti over the F*ORD SHO and even the new Caddy CTS4.