PHR mag. 20 things you don't know about 2010 Camaro
05-30-2009, 12:32 PM
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PHR mag. 20 things you don't know about 2010 Camaro Of the 20 things they mentioned this stuck out. " Bye Bye Z/28" Basically the Z/28 program has been cancelled and Washington is to blame stating "that the Z/28 was a shameful car and that GM couldn't be seen building it in the current enviroment" What kinda bull is that? Check out the article in Popular Hot Rodding's July issue. It really sucks that Gm faithful people suffer because of our dumbass gov't. They also disbanded GM Performance Division....great, the car guy gets the short end of the stick again!
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05-30-2009, 05:41 PM
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Welcome to the new America, the land of "don't worry, the government has decided everything for you." Your opinions are not relavant, as the government already knows best. Thank you for your input, it will be disregarded.
05-30-2009, 06:31 PM
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Jay Leno said it best, cars to the american people are like shoes to women. It doesn't matter how practical, green, or safe it is, if it doesn't look good or perform well it won't sell.
The new socialist government of Barack Obama is attempting to kill what makes america original and so wonderful.
Hopefully texas will suceed from the U.S. and I'll move south a 100 miles.
The new socialist government of Barack Obama is attempting to kill what makes america original and so wonderful.
Hopefully texas will suceed from the U.S. and I'll move south a 100 miles.
05-30-2009, 10:02 PM
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+ 150,000,000 ....... I really didnt want to have to say....See we were right !!! But we were and Obama shows us why everyday !!! You got to admit, Ford was genious not to accept federal bailout money...Dammit General !!!
05-30-2009, 10:37 PM
#7
its not obama ******* with gm, its stupid gm not being able to run business as they should, if they would of had a decent business plan we would not have this discussion, obama or the goverment did not ask to have part of GM, GM asked the goverment.they been doing the same for many years, they have the ability to succeed yet they are seduced by short term profits and not longevity, its not the first time this has happened to them they should of learned the first time around.I love chevys and American cars and im not politically inclined but when i see these threads and the first thing i hear is "oh the goverment, blah blah obama its all his fault....." the article is what it is an article a matter of someones opinion... i never saw abama or the US goverment knocking on GM door for some money, I suppose the banking problem is also Obamas fault....if they did not want the govement watching over them and making desicions over GM they should of done a better job at running a good business..now where is my midol!!!!lol
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05-30-2009, 11:32 PM
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its not obama ******* with gm, its stupid gm not being able to run business as they should, if they would of had a decent business plan we would not have this discussion, obama or the goverment did not ask to have part of GM, GM asked the goverment.they been doing the same for many years, they have the ability to succeed yet they are seduced by short term profits and not longevity, its not the first time this has happened to them they should of learned the first time around.I love chevys and American cars and im not politically inclined but when i see these threads and the first thing i hear is "oh the goverment, blah blah obama its all his fault....." the article is what it is an article a matter of someones opinion... i never saw abama or the US goverment knocking on GM door for some money, I suppose the banking problem is also Obamas fault....if they did not want the govement watching over them and making desicions over GM they should of done a better job at running a good business..now where is my midol!!!!lol
05-30-2009, 11:49 PM
#9
its not obama ******* with gm, its stupid gm not being able to run business as they should, if they would of had a decent business plan we would not have this discussion, obama or the goverment did not ask to have part of GM, GM asked the goverment.they been doing the same for many years, they have the ability to succeed yet they are seduced by short term profits and not longevity, its not the first time this has happened to them they should of learned the first time around.I love chevys and American cars and im not politically inclined but when i see these threads and the first thing i hear is "oh the goverment, blah blah obama its all his fault....." the article is what it is an article a matter of someones opinion... i never saw abama or the US goverment knocking on GM door for some money, I suppose the banking problem is also Obamas fault....if they did not want the govement watching over them and making desicions over GM they should of done a better job at running a good business..now where is my midol!!!!lol
05-31-2009, 09:18 AM
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Thanks Man! its not obama ******* with gm, its stupid gm not being able to run business as they should, if they would of had a decent business plan we would not have this discussion, obama or the goverment did not ask to have part of GM, GM asked the goverment.they been doing the same for many years, they have the ability to succeed yet they are seduced by short term profits and not longevity, its not the first time this has happened to them they should of learned the first time around.I love chevys and American cars and im not politically inclined but when i see these threads and the first thing i hear is "oh the goverment, blah blah obama its all his fault....." the article is what it is an article a matter of someones opinion... i never saw abama or the US goverment knocking on GM door for some money, I suppose the banking problem is also Obamas fault....if they did not want the govement watching over them and making desicions over GM they should of done a better job at running a good business..now where is my midol!!!!lol
05-31-2009, 11:26 AM
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Very well said man! I might be on the side bar with this subject but here goes. In 1970's, you could buy a Toyota for 2500 dollars let alone any other brand name. A person's salary was 20k a year but today that same job pay's 40k a year, why is the price of car's 10x more than the cars 40 years ago. Mortgages was in the low hundred's but today is 1-2k on the average a month! Peoples salaries didn't increase 10x for a profession like an electronic technician like myself so why did vehicles increase 10x. I don't understand this.
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05-31-2009, 11:38 AM
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05-31-2009, 11:49 AM
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its not obama ******* with gm, its stupid gm not being able to run business as they should, if they would of had a decent business plan we would not have this discussion, obama or the goverment did not ask to have part of GM, GM asked the goverment.they been doing the same for many years, they have the ability to succeed yet they are seduced by short term profits and not longevity, its not the first time this has happened to them they should of learned the first time around.I love chevys and American cars and im not politically inclined but when i see these threads and the first thing i hear is "oh the goverment, blah blah obama its all his fault....." the article is what it is an article a matter of someones opinion... i never saw abama or the US goverment knocking on GM door for some money, I suppose the banking problem is also Obamas fault....if they did not want the govement watching over them and making desicions over GM they should of done a better job at running a good business..now where is my midol!!!!lol
I am trully shocked how many people are willing to give up there freedoms in this country...my God, what do we stand for when we can't even defend our own freedom to make decision for ourselves and the companies we own.
So now, we the people will own 70% of GM...are you serious...you think "we the people" can do a better job at running GM then GM could? We the people have been arguing about abortion for the better part of a century and you think we the people will be able to decide what f'in car we should build?
Sorry for the rant I guess I'm just pissed I really want a Z28, hopefully GM can contract it out to SLP or something.
05-31-2009, 11:53 AM
#14
Very well said man! I might be on the side bar with this subject but here goes. In 1970's, you could buy a Toyota for 2500 dollars let alone any other brand name. A person's salary was 20k a year but today that same job pay's 40k a year, why is the price of car's 10x more than the cars 40 years ago. Mortgages was in the low hundred's but today is 1-2k on the average a month! Peoples salaries didn't increase 10x for a profession like an electronic technician like myself so why did vehicles increase 10x. I don't understand this.
05-31-2009, 12:32 PM
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If you guys want to find a spacegoat, the priority should go as follows:
1. GM [primarily management, but it spreads all the way down to mainly lackluster cars and the dealers screwing the customers as much as they can]
2. Unions
3. GWB and his policies [or in some cases lack of policy changes] which led to the crisis
Obama is not even in the picture, as the bailout money started flowing BEFORE he came into the office. Obama certainly did not ask to kill Z28 or for any other specific changes. Those were proposed by GM itself. If you have a better proposal, why don't you share it.
If you are upset about z28 so much - put yourself into GM's CEO position and think - would you *REALLY* need z28 ASAP to get out of the hole?The obvious problem with the new camaro is not power - it's those extra 500lb [compared to the old one]. Ah, and BTW, z06 and zr1 Vette's already provide plenty of attraction to get people into show rooms.
1. GM [primarily management, but it spreads all the way down to mainly lackluster cars and the dealers screwing the customers as much as they can]
2. Unions
3. GWB and his policies [or in some cases lack of policy changes] which led to the crisis
Obama is not even in the picture, as the bailout money started flowing BEFORE he came into the office. Obama certainly did not ask to kill Z28 or for any other specific changes. Those were proposed by GM itself. If you have a better proposal, why don't you share it.
If you are upset about z28 so much - put yourself into GM's CEO position and think - would you *REALLY* need z28 ASAP to get out of the hole?The obvious problem with the new camaro is not power - it's those extra 500lb [compared to the old one]. Ah, and BTW, z06 and zr1 Vette's already provide plenty of attraction to get people into show rooms.
05-31-2009, 02:00 PM
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its not obama ******* with gm, its stupid gm not being able to run business as they should, if they would of had a decent business plan we would not have this discussion, obama or the goverment did not ask to have part of GM, GM asked the goverment.they been doing the same for many years, they have the ability to succeed yet they are seduced by short term profits and not longevity, its not the first time this has happened to them they should of learned the first time around.I love chevys and American cars and im not politically inclined but when i see these threads and the first thing i hear is "oh the goverment, blah blah obama its all his fault....." the article is what it is an article a matter of someones opinion... i never saw abama or the US goverment knocking on GM door for some money, I suppose the banking problem is also Obamas fault....if they did not want the govement watching over them and making desicions over GM they should of done a better job at running a good business..now where is my midol!!!!lol
Stupid people blame it on Obama, its GM's fault
05-31-2009, 02:18 PM
#17
Try to manage a business where you have no choice in the fact that you have to pay your employees 2 or 3 times what they are worth (or more) and they have a set amount of work to do and can read a book for the rest of the shift if they finish early. The UAW should have been disbanded long ago.
I saw a show about the corvette plant and the workers were wearing their own non-matching tshirts and shorts. The same series showed the plants where some foreign high performance cars are built and the workers were all wearing matching uniforms and/or lab coats. It was embarrasing to me as an American.
If you blame this on GM you clearly don't know the whole story.
I saw a show about the corvette plant and the workers were wearing their own non-matching tshirts and shorts. The same series showed the plants where some foreign high performance cars are built and the workers were all wearing matching uniforms and/or lab coats. It was embarrasing to me as an American.
If you blame this on GM you clearly don't know the whole story.
05-31-2009, 04:15 PM
#18
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I am so f**king sick of you guys blaming the Government.
GM, Chrysler are going under because of inferior products priced in the same brackets as much much better vehicles.
I am one year out of college, I live in Michigan and I got a pretty good job as a Web Application Developer/Analyst. I have a Bachelors of Science in Business Administration with a Major in the Management of Information Systems...
A GM employee who builds cars all day, and has no education past High School and on the job training, can expect to make $28 dollars an hour to repeat the same process a few times an hour. That is the largest factor in why the American Auto Industry has gone to pot. If that person loses their job, they still get benefits, and they still get paid a percentage of their wage.
If you want to know whom to blame, blame the brass, blame the union and blame the government last. The government is trying to look after its' new invested interest in the automotive business world..something GM and Chrysler should have been doing on its own...
/rant (say what you will)
GM, Chrysler are going under because of inferior products priced in the same brackets as much much better vehicles.
I am one year out of college, I live in Michigan and I got a pretty good job as a Web Application Developer/Analyst. I have a Bachelors of Science in Business Administration with a Major in the Management of Information Systems...
A GM employee who builds cars all day, and has no education past High School and on the job training, can expect to make $28 dollars an hour to repeat the same process a few times an hour. That is the largest factor in why the American Auto Industry has gone to pot. If that person loses their job, they still get benefits, and they still get paid a percentage of their wage.
If you want to know whom to blame, blame the brass, blame the union and blame the government last. The government is trying to look after its' new invested interest in the automotive business world..something GM and Chrysler should have been doing on its own...
/rant (say what you will)
05-31-2009, 04:24 PM
#19
The real reason is GM made **** products for a long time and they didn't market any decent products they did make. How many commercials did you see about the 4th gen f-body? Five or six from 93-2002? If you want to see how the imports make money it's a simple as looking at advertising, building a solid product, and LISTENING TO YOUR CUSTOMERS! Union shmunion, sheeple just use them as a scapegoat.
Larry
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05-31-2009, 04:44 PM
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The order of blame goes:
1. Government
That is it. The government has handicapped the domestic automotive industry by letting the unions do whatever they want. It is illegal for GM to fire people in the union and get higher quality workers at a fair wage. It is illegal for GM to force terms on the union trust and the retiree benefits. They have been forced into every contract for the last 40 years. The unions are only doing what any person given the chance will do, which is take everything they can get their hands on. The more they take, the more the government protects them. I remember reading about how the unions voted to lower the pay of new workers. How noble! These generous people voted to lower the next generations pay, and leave their own untouched. But you can't blame them. They are just taking everything they can get. This has been going on for 40 years, it is not Obama's fault. It is, however, the governments fault.
What is Obama's fault is turning over much of the company to the unions and wiping out the bondholders. This is completely the opposite of how our system works, and is a real awakening for people that understand what that means. GM should be allowed to get out from under its mountain of debt that they were forced into and fire every union employee and re-hire the ones that want to work. This time, they should be able to run it like nearly all other successful industries in the world, without a union!
If GM made crappy products, I don't think they would sell more vehicles than anybody else in this country, but if some of you guys hate their products so much, what the hell are you doing on this website?
1. Government
That is it. The government has handicapped the domestic automotive industry by letting the unions do whatever they want. It is illegal for GM to fire people in the union and get higher quality workers at a fair wage. It is illegal for GM to force terms on the union trust and the retiree benefits. They have been forced into every contract for the last 40 years. The unions are only doing what any person given the chance will do, which is take everything they can get their hands on. The more they take, the more the government protects them. I remember reading about how the unions voted to lower the pay of new workers. How noble! These generous people voted to lower the next generations pay, and leave their own untouched. But you can't blame them. They are just taking everything they can get. This has been going on for 40 years, it is not Obama's fault. It is, however, the governments fault.
What is Obama's fault is turning over much of the company to the unions and wiping out the bondholders. This is completely the opposite of how our system works, and is a real awakening for people that understand what that means. GM should be allowed to get out from under its mountain of debt that they were forced into and fire every union employee and re-hire the ones that want to work. This time, they should be able to run it like nearly all other successful industries in the world, without a union!
If GM made crappy products, I don't think they would sell more vehicles than anybody else in this country, but if some of you guys hate their products so much, what the hell are you doing on this website?