Derrick1227

So in the spring or basically as soon as I get a new job (lost mine right before Thanksgiving....still didn't ruin my holidays) I have some money saved away that I'm trying to hold off from using so I can have it for this build. I just wanted to bounce my ideas off everyone and see what they thought.....First here is some history on my car is 2002 Camaro and with this being the current mods
Volant intake, Frost tune, Ported TB, OBX headers, ORY, Hooker Cat back.

Here's some pics




Anyways I just wanted to bounce my list off people. Right now I'll just state I'm set on my heads and cam choice the supporting mods for that I'm up for ideas with that said here's my build list.

LS2 Timing chain, GM rockers with comp cams LSX rocker arm trunion, chromemoly push rods, LS7 lifters, SDPC 5.3 heads, prothane motor mounts, 3.73 gears, 160 T-stat, Powerbond 25% HB, and lastly the GM Hot cam.

Thanks for any input guys!

Tuskyz28

First thing I want to say is nice car bro!! I would contact Tony Mamo for a mamofield top end. Let him do the heads, cam, and intake. I bet you wouldn't be disappointed at all.

HomeSchool

She's a beauty! as far as build suggestions go, are you going for street/strip or full on toy? Is she an auto or stick? either way you might want to think about some tranny mods to help support that amount of torque. I agree with Tuskyz suggestion as well, get any porting done by a professional or experienced craftsman. Have you thought about suspension yet? a good suspension makes you feel just glued to the road. its a great feeling.

Derrick1227

I forgot to mention that for suspension that I already had sub frame connectors new lower control arms and a strut tower brace. With plans to add a pan hard bar.

As far as tranny goes it's A4 I plan to beef it up eventually. The car is not going to be a drag car just a street car as I only want a cruiser and something to be extra proud of at the car shows.

Derrick1227

Also the heads were SDPC I've heard nothing but good things I know someone else on used that set up for heads and cam and was putting around 400 to the ground no issues granted I don't know the supporting mods.

Fry_

The car would be faster and more fun with a good 3600+rpm torque converter than with heads and a cam.

Derrick1227

I always have the option later to add a converter because I pretty well have my mind made up on the heads and cam

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I would pass on the gears and instead spend that money on a 3500+ stall speed converter.

Assuming the car is an original SS, then it already has 3.23 gears. The swap to 3.73 isn't worth even half the gains of a converter swap, not to mention how much more beneficial the converter would be for the cam (vs. gears alone). Additionally, once you have a 3500+ stall speed in place, a 3.23 to 3.73 swap is worth 0.1 second of ET reduction at best (usually less).

Cam + stock stall speed will also make idle tuning more difficult, leaving some driveability on the table.

3.73s tend not to be as strong as the stock ratios, plus the gears are only as good as the manufacturer and installer. Gear whine and breakage will be more likely with an aftermarket 3.73 setup vs. your stock 3.23 setup.

The gear swap is a good idea if you're looking for a max effort car and want to wring every last drop of performance out of it. Or, if you've already done the stall and find that you're one of the few people bothered by the looseness. Otherwise it's not really worth doing, and certainly not worth doing before a stall (unless maybe your rear is already broken and needs to be rebuilt/replaced anyway, and/or you can do your own gear swap and save the labor costs).

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Not true.....it would just feel faster in the first 100 feet or so.

Sure it would help the 60 foot and ET a touch of that same configuration but it would also eat up some power with its less efficient design (the higher the stall the lower the observed power at the wheels generally). The trap speed and way your car pulls down the track (or your favorite stretch of asphalt) would be no different because you didn't create or make any more actual power.

The same car with a stock converter and a heads cam might 60 foot a tenth or so slower but it would pass the stock headed converter car by the 330 marker or sooner with authority and just start putting car lengths on it after the 1/8 mile or so.

Converters don't make power.....they should be better utilized in a car that already has power, especially those with larger cams that need the engine to be in the 4K plus range to make any real grunt and help them leave the line and 60 foot better.

Just some info I felt was worth sharing....

-Tony

Mazzenger

iTrader: (5)

A new converter should be considered during your heads and cam swap. You can get away with the stock converter depending on the cam you choose.
(The Hot Cam isn't really going to dig your stock stall and will probably bog off the line)

In fact you may talk to Tony Mamo (above) about a head cam combintation.

The cam and converter work hand in-hand. They are a powerful team when combined.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

As a side note, I agree with the Hotcam selection for an application where maximum durability/minimum valve train maintenance are top priorities. You certainly won't light the world on fire with it, but it's a great choice for a street combo that offers noticeable gains and can be put together, tuned, and driven for ~100k or more without any worries or concerns. No need to spin the stock bottom end super high with this cam either.

Many people shun the Hotcam because it won't put up numbers like the big donky dick/super aggressive lobe cams will. I guess this matters to the guys with max effort cars/race cars/those looking for huge power gains, and/or those who just like dyno bragging rights. I like low fuss/minimal maintenance/maximum durability for a street car and I'm definitely a proponent of the Hotcam for those reasons.

Derrick1227

Well my thoughts were to possibly leave the stock gears (3.23's) then go with maybe like a 2800-3000 stall as I don't see the need to have something over 3500 as I don't plan to make big power.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Perhaps you might want to do a bit more research then. Even a stock LS1 will do better with a 3500 stall speed (vs. 2800-3000), so it's not limited to cars making "big power".

Most people who go with less than 3500 end up wishing they'd gone higher. This is doubly true when a higher lift/longer duration cam is employed, as peak torque is shifted upward and higher shift extension is desirable for best performance and driveability.

For most of the "big" cams, you'd really need a 4000-4500 stall to get best performance, but not everyone wants such a big stall on the street, so 3500-4000 ends up being the typical compromise for both stock and non-stock internal LS1s. In terms of high quality/top shelf converters, ~3500ish will feel just a bit looser than stock to most people after just a week or so of driving. Cheap converters usually feel noticeably looser at the same stall speed as a better quality unit, so people who have experienced lower end units at 2500-3000 stall speeds might think that 3500 sounds huge, but frankly a "good" 3500 will feel no looser than a "cheap" 2500-3000.

Derrick1227

Thanks for the info. I mean the cost of a good converter seems to be just a bit higher than everything needed for a gear swap anyways so I'm not spending that much more. Basically my budget is going to be in the neighborhood of $6000 that's parts and having them installed and tuned

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

This is exactly why I always advise people to do the stall first, especially when they already have 3.23s, as this is where the BIG gains are in terms of upgrades behind the engine. Even for those with 2.73s, you aren't going to drop much ET swapping to a 3.73 once you already have a 3500+ stall speed (maybe 0.1-0.15 seconds), but any given stall speed will feel a bit looser with the 2.73s so if you happen to be one of the small group who is annoyed by looseness, this will be amplified with the 2.73s (vs. 3.23). Any improvements in ET or perceived "looseness" are even less when going 3.23 to 3.73, and there are potential downsides to be considered with this swap, already outlined above. Additionally, higher numeric gear ratios will reduce MPG under all conditions (city or highway), as the engine is always at a higher rpm for any given speed. With a higher stall torque converter, the only MPG reduction would occur in the city, as highway rpms (once in lock-up, above ~40-45mph) will be exactly the same as stock.

Nickmoore240sx

thats awsome bud keep her going

Derrick1227

So I ended up ordering the following and will be getting it installed in the next month.

Trunion upgrade
ASA cam
SDPC N-motion hd timing set
Chromemoly Pushrods
GM Performance LS7 Lifters
LS1 TCI 4L60E Street Fighter 3000 Torque Converter
PRC stg 2.5 5.3l heads

Gotta say I'm pretty stoked to get this build done.

Fry_

I hope you did some searching before buying that TCI converter, I wouldn't be surprised if it feels looser when driving around town than most of the higher quality 3500-4000 rpm converters.