Starter motor mount on block....broke.....
03-28-2010, 03:54 AM
#21
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03-28-2010, 01:32 PM
#24
Why would it matter what length bolts are used, if the torque of the starter is there the block will break, like it did. And why would it matter if its a car starter or a truck starter....the block is what broke.
What happened was.....the starter housing itself broke right where it attaches to the shorter bolt. That made the starter pull away from the flywheel and it would not catch to start the engine. So I was taking the starter off and took the long bolt out first because the short bolt was way too tight to budge it. As I was unscrewing the long bolt that chunk fell off onto the ground.
I'm gonna put the new strter in and I'm going to put a washer with a nut on the end of the long bolt, but that washer will be made so I can bend a tab over the wall of the mount so the bolt cannot move away from the mount, it will stay in the threads. I can use a piece of iron, drill a hole in it the size of the bolt and bend it so it grabs the mount.
This whole thing blows........you would think the jerkoffs at GM would have designed that a little better.
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Last edited by LS6427; 03-28-2010 at 02:05 PM.
03-28-2010, 06:17 PM
#25
everyone else change it out for the truck starter if you want to avoid this problem, its just not worth the trouble for a 100 dollar fix. It won't break off at the short bolt like ls6427 starter did and ruin the block.
Last edited by HotSilverBird; 03-28-2010 at 06:47 PM.
03-28-2010, 06:34 PM
#26
03-28-2010, 10:48 PM
#29
Nothing hit me yet
What happened was.....the starter housing itself broke right where it attaches to the shorter bolt. That made the starter pull away from the flywheel and it would not catch to start the engine. So I was taking the starter off and took the long bolt out first because the short bolt was way too tight to budge it. As I was unscrewing the long bolt that chunk fell off onto the ground.
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What happened was.....the starter housing itself broke right where it attaches to the shorter bolt. That made the starter pull away from the flywheel and it would not catch to start the engine. So I was taking the starter off and took the long bolt out first because the short bolt was way too tight to budge it. As I was unscrewing the long bolt that chunk fell off onto the ground.
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truck starter:
Here is the LS1 starter:
HotSilverBird was saying that if the shorter bolt is loose, or if the starter breaks at the point where the shorter bolt goes, this will cause the starter to pull away, and with that force, the mounting point on the block where the longer bolt goes will snap off. The truck starter's mounting point is the same on both sides, so it doesn't have the weaker mounting point like the short bolt LS1 starter does. Since the truck starter has the beefier mounting point, it won't break and cause the problem.
The thing that HotSilverBird and I quoted is what he is trying to explain to all of us. You stated the reason in that quote, just don't realize it
Hell, it didn't hit me till I stopped thinking about it for awhile. Then I made the connection. This is one of those pieces of advice that I sure won't forget when wrenching on these cars. I really hope I wrote that correctly. I have a tough time explaining things into words without physically showing some what it is I am talking about.
Last edited by BlackDuk98; 03-28-2010 at 10:59 PM.
03-28-2010, 11:37 PM
#32
Looking at the picture of the stock ls1 starter is scary, look how thin the mount is near the small end. That end takes most of the abuse too.........gm sure does some stupid things. If it cracks off its over in a spilt second!
03-28-2010, 11:49 PM
#33
HotSilverBird, I really appriciate you posting this info. I never gave much thought on the subject. I read about people snapping the block off a few years back, but I think I always read that it was overtightened. I was paranoid about it when I removed mine for a tranny swap. I just checked to make sure that the tooth engagement between the starter and flexplate was in spec, but never torqued them. Just used the old "mental: torque wrench and made sure it was tight, but not crazy since it was aluminum. I am actually going to try to get a truck starter this week and swap them out even though mine works nicely. I am going to need it for my future 408 build anyways. Plus I have no problem spending $$ as a precaution.
This post should be a sticky
Thanks again for helping us all out
extremely valuable info.
mark jr.
This post should be a sticky
Thanks again for helping us all out
extremely valuable info.mark jr.
Last edited by BlackDuk98; 03-29-2010 at 09:39 AM.
03-29-2010, 04:18 AM
#35
These are the pics from the link that dopy posted at the top. The pics are posted from demonpixel in that link.
truck starter:
Here is the LS1 starter:
HotSilverBird was saying that if the shorter bolt is loose, or if the starter breaks at the point where the shorter bolt goes, this will cause the starter to pull away, and with that force, the mounting point on the block where the longer bolt goes will snap off. The truck starter's mounting point is the same on both sides, so it doesn't have the weaker mounting point like the short bolt LS1 starter does. Since the truck starter has the beefier mounting point, it won't break and cause the problem.
The thing that HotSilverBird and I quoted is what he is trying to explain to all of us. You stated the reason in that quote, just don't realize it Hell, it didn't hit me till I stopped thinking about it for awhile. Then I made the connection. This is one of those pieces of advice that I sure won't forget when wrenching on these cars.
I really hope I wrote that correctly. I have a tough time explaining things into words without physically showing some what it is I am talking about.
truck starter:
Here is the LS1 starter:
HotSilverBird was saying that if the shorter bolt is loose, or if the starter breaks at the point where the shorter bolt goes, this will cause the starter to pull away, and with that force, the mounting point on the block where the longer bolt goes will snap off. The truck starter's mounting point is the same on both sides, so it doesn't have the weaker mounting point like the short bolt LS1 starter does. Since the truck starter has the beefier mounting point, it won't break and cause the problem.
The thing that HotSilverBird and I quoted is what he is trying to explain to all of us. You stated the reason in that quote, just don't realize it
Hell, it didn't hit me till I stopped thinking about it for awhile. Then I made the connection. This is one of those pieces of advice that I sure won't forget when wrenching on these cars. I really hope I wrote that correctly. I have a tough time explaining things into words without physically showing some what it is I am talking about.
The truck starter simply won't break, especially at the shorter bolt mounting area of the starter like the stock LS1 starter has.
But I'm screwed either way because I have a broken mount. All I can do is try to put a washer and a nut on the longer bolt side. But I will go get the truck starter in case it works.
Anyone have a part number?
.
03-29-2010, 09:07 AM
#36
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Damn that sure sucks. . . . I guess I will have to do mine when I get bored. . . .
I never seen this as a common issue, since there are not many posts on this.
But, to crack your block sucks way too much ***.
I would still say try to get it welded.
Good luck. . . . . . .
I never seen this as a common issue, since there are not many posts on this.
But, to crack your block sucks way too much ***.
I would still say try to get it welded.
Good luck. . . . . . .
03-29-2010, 09:42 AM
#37
Thanks.....I totally understand now, you explained it clearly.
The truck starter simply won't break, especially at the shorter bolt mounting area of the starter like the stock LS1 starter has.
But I'm screwed either way because I have a broken mount. All I can do is try to put a washer and a nut on the longer bolt side. But I will go get the truck starter in case it works.
Anyone have a part number?
.
The truck starter simply won't break, especially at the shorter bolt mounting area of the starter like the stock LS1 starter has.
But I'm screwed either way because I have a broken mount. All I can do is try to put a washer and a nut on the longer bolt side. But I will go get the truck starter in case it works.
Anyone have a part number?
.
And I agree, I would at least try to get that welded back
mark jr.
03-29-2010, 02:43 PM
#38
Honestly this is a VERY old issue thats been around since 97 when they started stuffing the ls1 in the vettes. Gm never stepped up and updated the starter but MOST part places know about it and will give you the stronger starter in place of the ls1 starter.
The early trucks had the same trouble, they used the weaker starter with the short bolt. But i guess gm got sick of paying for blocks and updated it on the trucks.
good luck guys
The early trucks had the same trouble, they used the weaker starter with the short bolt. But i guess gm got sick of paying for blocks and updated it on the trucks.
good luck guys
Last edited by HotSilverBird; 03-29-2010 at 02:50 PM.
03-29-2010, 05:48 PM
#39
Because I only need this engine to run for another 3-4 months...I'm getting a new engine.
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03-29-2010, 06:03 PM
#40
Honestly this is a VERY old issue thats been around since 97 when they started stuffing the ls1 in the vettes. Gm never stepped up and updated the starter but MOST part places know about it and will give you the stronger starter in place of the ls1 starter.
The early trucks had the same trouble, they used the weaker starter with the short bolt. But i guess gm got sick of paying for blocks and updated it on the trucks.
good luck guys
The early trucks had the same trouble, they used the weaker starter with the short bolt. But i guess gm got sick of paying for blocks and updated it on the trucks.
good luck guys
.