fastertransam

Hi,

I'm getting the driver side window fixed. The shop says it needs a regulator and motor assembly. Apparently the original part number is discontinued.

The shop wants to use a Dorman [no idea what part number]. I though I would be better off "bringing my own" with an AC Delco. There does seem to be one on Rock Auto that is apparently a proper current replacement.

The other thing is the shop is charging a lot for labor and they want $175.00 or so for the aftermarket part. I can get the AC Delco for about $80.00. So there's that.

Anyhow, does anyone know which of the two regulator and motor assemblies would be better than the other?


Thanks,


FTA

ss.slp.ls1

iTrader: (36)

Are you fixing a dead motor? There are write ups on how to replace just the motor by drilling out the rivets holding the motor to the regulator and installing a new motor with hardware.

ghardester

I don't know about the regulator, but Dorman window motors are the preferred replacement for the stock motors. When the stock motors go out, as they often do, you want to replace it with Dorman, not another stock motor. Sounds like I agree with your shop.

There is a 2 page sticky about windows at the top of this page, I suggest you read it.

ghardester

Well, that's weird. I could have swore that this thread was in the Firebird section when I posted, now in General Maintenance.

Anyway, here is the sticky I was talking about so you don't look for it at the top of this page.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-f...hs-truths.html

fastertransam

Hi,

I honestly don't know if the motor is bad, but the shop [dealership] wants to replace the whole assembly. [Yeah, I know] The window does not go up "straight" to make a perfect seal at the top of the door. It is also intermittent, generally, but if I turn the car off, then press the window switch, then turn the car on, it works.

The AC Delco I found is obviously not the "stock" unit, since that is discontinued. I was just wondering if the newer AC Delco assemblies are also improved [like or better than the Dormans].


Thanks,


FTA

fastertransam

Hi,

The sticky is interesting, but it does not seem relevant, since, if I am not mistaken, it ultimately comes to the conclusion that the new, improved design has been abandoned by Dorman.

So the question remains as whether the current Dorman offering or the AC Delco at RockAuto is the better choice. Or are they the same part? Anybody know?

Thanks,

FTA

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

I recall there has been some talk that the Doorman may be 100% new and more reliable. They could also be the same part with a different name on them. Over the past few years, the manufacturers for these things have flipped a bit. Hence the issues in the sticky.


The factory service procedure is to replace the whole thing as a unit - regulator and motor. If you go to a dealership, this is the only option they will give you. It's like going in to a (VERY) expensive restaurant with only one item on the menu. In the end, it make sense for you because their labor prices are so outrageous (you are subsidizing other people's new car purchases because the dealers don't make any money off that) you are better to pay more for the part that is quicker to put in.

^ The factory procedure is bad in that removing the regulator does slight damage to the door. Over time, with multiple replacements, it can be a big problem. We've also seen dealers not use the proper rivets called for in the factory procedure... (they aren't stocked right on the shelves anymore, so people may take short-cuts instead of waiting for the proper parts to come in)


If you can't do the motor replacement yourself, I recommend looking for a smaller shop who can do the shbox method for you. It will be kinder to the car and hopefully your wallet. (And if you ever need to change the motor after this time - you can do it yourself just with wrenches.)

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Great summary and advice from wssix99 above.

The only thing I'd like to add/point out is this:

If the window isn't going up straight/smooth and/or sealing correctly, then you may in fact need a new regulator. But it sounds like the motor is also failing (intermittent operation and all), so in this case you might actually be a good candidate for the entire swap. Having said that, I'd like to reiterate what wssix99 mentioned above regarding that special rivet for regulator replacement. You don't want that hole in the door getting enlarged over time, trying to repair that is a hassle.

fastertransam

Hi,

Thanks for your advice and information.

I hate to sound stupid, but what is a shbox method?

I think the issue with the rivets is already happening in the car from a previous window repair that I had an independent mechanic do. Its never been right since, and they mentioned something about the rivets [as if it was not their fault], and getting a new door. This was when I brought the car back to them after their initial repair, because the window was not rolling up "straight" and it was leaking [as it did not seal at the top of the door]. They fixed it somewhat, but not completely, and that's one reason its at the dealership now. Anyhow, that's when the mechanic starting talking about rivets and new doors.

I don't know what to tell the dealership at this point. For one thing, I don't like that they are charging me $175.00 for a $61.00 part. That seems excessive. And I suspect they are going to get into the job only to discover that its not the regulator at all, but the door / rivets.

I've already authorized the "preliminary estimate", but I'm on pretty good terms with them.

How would you proceed?



Thanks,


FTA

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

^ That doesn't sound good. I'd guess that the last shop already did a complete regulator replacement and damaged that rivet mounting hole in the door (hence your current alignment/sealing issues).

There's a repair for this that I've seen posted before, it requires fabricating a reinforcement plate for the inner area of the door with the enlarged/damaged hole. If the previous shop mentioned something about needing a "new door" then I'm almost positive that this is what's going on (enlarged rivet hole).

The "shbox method" is a method of replacing just the motor when it dies - doing it this way does not require removal of the regulator nor messing with that big door rivet at all (just the rivets that hold the motor to the regulator). Here is the link (and it also explains more about the concerns with regulator replacement): http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html

But it sounds like the damage is already done in your case. The door will need some sort of repair for the regulator to mount properly again.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Red Flag. Full Stop. You will want to confirm this situation first. If the dealer just gave you an "estimate", they would not have seen this and could tell you that it will cost you $2000 to replace and paint the door...

You will want to confirm if you have the problem with this thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html


If you have this problem ^, then you don't need a mechanic - you need a body/mechanical shop. You can take the above thread to a good body shop and they can work things out. (While they are in there, they can replace the bad motor - that's probably going to be the easy part here.) The body shop may also confirm that getting a new door could be your path of least cost/resistance. (Either way, they will be less expensive on that service than a dealer.)