in the middle of heads and cam swap have some questions
05-13-2013, 07:07 PM
#1
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in the middle of heads and cam swap have some questions hey guys so im in the middle of a cam and heads build on my 2000 z and this is my first build ever, its going well so far but some things are stumping me and need some input ill lay the questions out to make it easy.
1. i am putting new ls7 lifters and trays, obv i have to let them soak in oil for a bit but as far as install do i just put them in the trays and put the whole assembly in the holes? or do i just drop them in one by one then install the trays?
2.i have ordered as many new bolts as i could just to be safe, i have been following ls1howto's write up and it seems they reuse alot of bolts. my main concern is if it would be safe to reuse the oil pan bolts since i have to drop it some for the oil pump but wasnt sure if i could just throw some blue threadlock on them and be ok? and also could i reuse the bolts on the timing cover?
3. as far as getting the timing right once i put the new cam in how do i go about that? do i just turn the motor over by hand till the crank dot is at 12 then put the gear on the cam and turn the motor until they line up?
4. last but not least once i have the car together i plan on doing a stall for it right away but im going to be doing it at my buddys shop, i am installing the tsp v3 cam is it safe to drive the car just to his shop once im done or am i better off trailering it there and doing the install?
thank you in advance to anyone who can put in their 2 cents i appreciate it.
1. i am putting new ls7 lifters and trays, obv i have to let them soak in oil for a bit but as far as install do i just put them in the trays and put the whole assembly in the holes? or do i just drop them in one by one then install the trays?
2.i have ordered as many new bolts as i could just to be safe, i have been following ls1howto's write up and it seems they reuse alot of bolts. my main concern is if it would be safe to reuse the oil pan bolts since i have to drop it some for the oil pump but wasnt sure if i could just throw some blue threadlock on them and be ok? and also could i reuse the bolts on the timing cover?
3. as far as getting the timing right once i put the new cam in how do i go about that? do i just turn the motor over by hand till the crank dot is at 12 then put the gear on the cam and turn the motor until they line up?
4. last but not least once i have the car together i plan on doing a stall for it right away but im going to be doing it at my buddys shop, i am installing the tsp v3 cam is it safe to drive the car just to his shop once im done or am i better off trailering it there and doing the install?
thank you in advance to anyone who can put in their 2 cents i appreciate it.
05-13-2013, 08:00 PM
#2
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can SOMEONE help me out? i find it hard to beleive over 100 ppl have viewed this and cant help me
Last edited by blackfbird98; 05-13-2013 at 09:23 PM.
05-13-2013, 09:32 PM
#3
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my opinions. yea I noticed on ls1howto about the bolts, yes you could clean and re-use ( I bought new).I soaked my new lifters for a bit, installed all the lfters then put on the retainers. make sure sure the cam and crank gear line up dot-to-dot. as far as driving, I'd suggest against it, maybe make sure it cranks over but I wouldnt drive it til after the stall then make sure you have it tuned asap, are you changing out injectors?
05-13-2013, 09:35 PM
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my opinions. yea I noticed on ls1howto about the bolts, yes you could clean and re-use ( I bought new).I soaked my new lifters for a bit, installed all the lfters then put on the retainers. make sure sure the cam and crank gear line up dot-to-dot. as far as driving, I'd suggest against it, maybe make sure it cranks over but I wouldnt drive it til after the stall then make sure you have it tuned asap, are you changing out injectors?
first off thank you for responding, now back to the lifters so you just dropped them in first then put the trays in? as far as driving it i mean if i have to trailer it fine but i need to be able to get it on a trailer i just wanna make sure its ok to move it. and yes i am doing injectors but when i got to have it tuned they are gonna swap it for me.
05-13-2013, 11:12 PM
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There are two dots on the timing sprockets the cam sprocket dot has to be at the 6 o'clock on and the crank sprocket has to be at the 12 o'clock and they have to be lined up with each other. You can drive it on the stock tune just don't rev past 4000 grand, but since you have an automatic the stock stall converter won't beable to handle the big cam causing the motor to stall. You can probably get away with foot braking. However if you are installing after market injectors I wouldn't drive it on the stock tune, trailer it too the dyno or install Injectors at the dyno shop. You will be ok driving it on the stock tune.
05-13-2013, 11:17 PM
#6
hey guys so im in the middle of a cam and heads build on my 2000 z and this is my first build ever, its going well so far but some things are stumping me and need some input ill lay the questions out to make it easy.
1. i am putting new ls7 lifters and trays, obv i have to let them soak in oil for a bit but as far as install do i just put them in the trays and put the whole assembly in the holes? or do i just drop them in one by one then install the trays?
Most let them sit in oil over night. Put the lifters in the tray, then install them. I don't know your mileage but you haven't I'd suggest the LS2 trays if you haven't done so already.
2.i have ordered as many new bolts as i could just to be safe, i have been following ls1howto's write up and it seems they reuse alot of bolts. my main concern is if it would be safe to reuse the oil pan bolts since i have to drop it some for the oil pump but wasnt sure if i could just throw some blue threadlock on them and be ok? and also could i reuse the bolts on the timing cover?
The only bolts you can't reuse when doing a head swap is the headbolts. Everything else is fine. Personally I would get ARP cam bolts but that's just me. Also make sure you put some blue loctite on the cam bolts. Again depending on your mileage I would probably replace the cam retaining plate. That o ring/gasket can go bad after time. There's no need to loctite the timing cover/pan bolts. Torque them to spec and you will be fine.
3. as far as getting the timing right once i put the new cam in how do i go about that? do i just turn the motor over by hand till the crank dot is at 12 then put the gear on the cam and turn the motor until they line up?
Spin the crank so the dot is at 12 o'clock and the cam at 6' o clock then put your chain on. I always rotate the engine after install the chain to make sure the dots line back up.
4. last but not least once i have the car together i plan on doing a stall for it right away but im going to be doing it at my buddys shop, i am installing the tsp v3 cam is it safe to drive the car just to his shop once im done or am i better off trailering it there and doing the install?
You can drive it with the stock stall. You might have to foot brake it to keep it from dying at a stop light or kick it up into neutral but you will be fine.
thank you in advance to anyone who can put in their 2 cents i appreciate it.
1. i am putting new ls7 lifters and trays, obv i have to let them soak in oil for a bit but as far as install do i just put them in the trays and put the whole assembly in the holes? or do i just drop them in one by one then install the trays?
Most let them sit in oil over night. Put the lifters in the tray, then install them. I don't know your mileage but you haven't I'd suggest the LS2 trays if you haven't done so already.
2.i have ordered as many new bolts as i could just to be safe, i have been following ls1howto's write up and it seems they reuse alot of bolts. my main concern is if it would be safe to reuse the oil pan bolts since i have to drop it some for the oil pump but wasnt sure if i could just throw some blue threadlock on them and be ok? and also could i reuse the bolts on the timing cover?
The only bolts you can't reuse when doing a head swap is the headbolts. Everything else is fine. Personally I would get ARP cam bolts but that's just me. Also make sure you put some blue loctite on the cam bolts. Again depending on your mileage I would probably replace the cam retaining plate. That o ring/gasket can go bad after time. There's no need to loctite the timing cover/pan bolts. Torque them to spec and you will be fine.
3. as far as getting the timing right once i put the new cam in how do i go about that? do i just turn the motor over by hand till the crank dot is at 12 then put the gear on the cam and turn the motor until they line up?
Spin the crank so the dot is at 12 o'clock and the cam at 6' o clock then put your chain on. I always rotate the engine after install the chain to make sure the dots line back up.
4. last but not least once i have the car together i plan on doing a stall for it right away but im going to be doing it at my buddys shop, i am installing the tsp v3 cam is it safe to drive the car just to his shop once im done or am i better off trailering it there and doing the install?
You can drive it with the stock stall. You might have to foot brake it to keep it from dying at a stop light or kick it up into neutral but you will be fine.
thank you in advance to anyone who can put in their 2 cents i appreciate it.
05-13-2013, 11:21 PM
#7
A few other things. Double and triple check to make sure your head bolt holes are clean. Buy the ARP specific LS tap or take an old head bolt, cut a few slits in the with a die grinder and use that to clean the threads. These head bolts do not go into water jackets, if there is ANYTHING in the holes when you tighten them down you have a good chance to cracking your block.
DO NOT under any circumstances follow LShowto's guide on re installing the harmonic balancer. Buy the correct tool or go buy a long piece of all thread. Do not use the old bolt to pull the balancer on. I'm sure there will be a few people post saying they did it and it was OK but its just plain stupid and not worth the risk.
DO NOT under any circumstances follow LShowto's guide on re installing the harmonic balancer. Buy the correct tool or go buy a long piece of all thread. Do not use the old bolt to pull the balancer on. I'm sure there will be a few people post saying they did it and it was OK but its just plain stupid and not worth the risk.
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05-14-2013, 09:38 AM
#10
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05-14-2013, 09:40 AM
#11
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A few other things. Double and triple check to make sure your head bolt holes are clean. Buy the ARP specific LS tap or take an old head bolt, cut a few slits in the with a die grinder and use that to clean the threads. These head bolts do not go into water jackets, if there is ANYTHING in the holes when you tighten them down you have a good chance to cracking your block.
DO NOT under any circumstances follow LShowto's guide on re installing the harmonic balancer. Buy the correct tool or go buy a long piece of all thread. Do not use the old bolt to pull the balancer on. I'm sure there will be a few people post saying they did it and it was OK but its just plain stupid and not worth the risk.
DO NOT under any circumstances follow LShowto's guide on re installing the harmonic balancer. Buy the correct tool or go buy a long piece of all thread. Do not use the old bolt to pull the balancer on. I'm sure there will be a few people post saying they did it and it was OK but its just plain stupid and not worth the risk.
why cant i follow ls1howto? what risk is there?
05-14-2013, 05:25 PM
#13
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My thought would be since its a tq to yield bolt it'll stretched a little and you won't get it seated all the way. Leaving the new one to finish the job possibly stretching that one as well before actually getting the balancer where it needs to be.
I noticed swapping my cousins balancer to an under drive pulley that the new pulley would not slide on far enough for the bolt to engage the threads in the crank properly. Not allowing us to use the ls1howto method. Instead I had to Mcguyver a tool. I cut the head off the old bolt and welded another bolt to it to make it longer. Then used some tuning I had laying around with a washer on each end for a spacer. It worked but unless the welds are good you run the risk of it snapping and not being able to get the old bolt out of the crank. We didn't have access to the tool and the hardware stores had closed so that was a last ditch option.
I noticed swapping my cousins balancer to an under drive pulley that the new pulley would not slide on far enough for the bolt to engage the threads in the crank properly. Not allowing us to use the ls1howto method. Instead I had to Mcguyver a tool. I cut the head off the old bolt and welded another bolt to it to make it longer. Then used some tuning I had laying around with a washer on each end for a spacer. It worked but unless the welds are good you run the risk of it snapping and not being able to get the old bolt out of the crank. We didn't have access to the tool and the hardware stores had closed so that was a last ditch option.
05-16-2013, 08:32 PM
#16
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the only thing i dont get is i was looking through the haynes manual for our cars and it even says in there to torque the stock bolt to 240 ft lbs.... im not disputing that its a big risk i just dont understand why i keep seeing that thats what you have to do to get the balancer to sit back on the crank snout.
05-16-2013, 09:11 PM
#17
[QUOTE=blackfbird98;17397232]hey guys so im in the middle of a cam and heads build on my 2000 z and this is my first build ever, its going well so far but some things are stumping me and need some input ill lay the questions out to make it easy.
1. i am putting new ls7 lifters and trays, obv i have to let them soak in oil for a bit but as far as install do i just put them in the trays and put the whole assembly in the holes? or do i just drop them in one by one then install the trays?
Some people soak, but doesn't do anything but make a mess. Pumping them would at least get oil in them...but again, when you prime the engine they will get pumped anyways.
DO NOT!!! just drop them in and then install the retainers. Install the lifters in the retainers and then install them in the block.
2.i have ordered as many new bolts as i could just to be safe, i have been following ls1howto's write up and it seems they reuse alot of bolts. my main concern is if it would be safe to reuse the oil pan bolts since i have to drop it some for the oil pump but wasnt sure if i could just throw some blue threadlock on them and be ok? and also could i reuse the bolts on the timing cover?
Stay away from LS1howto.com.
You can re-use a lot of the small hardware like the pan, timing cover etc...but DO NOT re-use head bolts or crank bolt.
3. as far as getting the timing right once i put the new cam in how do i go about that? do i just turn the motor over by hand till the crank dot is at 12 then put the gear on the cam and turn the motor until they line up?
If you have a normal chain, it only goes on one way. Line them up dot to dot. Degree'ing the cam is best.
4. last but not least once i have the car together i plan on doing a stall for it right away but im going to be doing it at my buddys shop, i am installing the tsp v3 cam is it safe to drive the car just to his shop once im done or am i better off trailering it there and doing the install?
Whats the question? Driving it without a tune? I wouldn't but some here would disagree.
thank you in advance to anyone who can put in their 2 cents i appreciate it.
1. i am putting new ls7 lifters and trays, obv i have to let them soak in oil for a bit but as far as install do i just put them in the trays and put the whole assembly in the holes? or do i just drop them in one by one then install the trays?
Some people soak, but doesn't do anything but make a mess. Pumping them would at least get oil in them...but again, when you prime the engine they will get pumped anyways.
DO NOT!!! just drop them in and then install the retainers. Install the lifters in the retainers and then install them in the block.
2.i have ordered as many new bolts as i could just to be safe, i have been following ls1howto's write up and it seems they reuse alot of bolts. my main concern is if it would be safe to reuse the oil pan bolts since i have to drop it some for the oil pump but wasnt sure if i could just throw some blue threadlock on them and be ok? and also could i reuse the bolts on the timing cover?
Stay away from LS1howto.com.
You can re-use a lot of the small hardware like the pan, timing cover etc...but DO NOT re-use head bolts or crank bolt.
3. as far as getting the timing right once i put the new cam in how do i go about that? do i just turn the motor over by hand till the crank dot is at 12 then put the gear on the cam and turn the motor until they line up?
If you have a normal chain, it only goes on one way. Line them up dot to dot. Degree'ing the cam is best.
4. last but not least once i have the car together i plan on doing a stall for it right away but im going to be doing it at my buddys shop, i am installing the tsp v3 cam is it safe to drive the car just to his shop once im done or am i better off trailering it there and doing the install?
Whats the question? Driving it without a tune? I wouldn't but some here would disagree.
thank you in advance to anyone who can put in their 2 cents i appreciate it.
05-16-2013, 09:15 PM
#18
the only thing i dont get is i was looking through the haynes manual for our cars and it even says in there to torque the stock bolt to 240 ft lbs.... im not disputing that its a big risk i just dont understand why i keep seeing that thats what you have to do to get the balancer to sit back on the crank snout.
05-17-2013, 10:27 AM
#19
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Because Haynes manuals are for the back-yard mechanics. I have no doubt you could re-use all of the TTY bolts and not see any ill effects, but we all know better. Head bolts and the crank bolt are not the bolts to re-use. Failure will make for a bad day and a destroyed engine. Those need to be NEW!
i dont plan on reusing the crank bolt, i bought a brand new one its just confusing when i keep reading to use the old crank bolt to PULL the balancer back on.
05-17-2013, 11:13 AM
#20
Well the first issue is the stock bolt isn't long enough to get all the threads fully seated in the crank. And even if you pull it on with a longer bolt your still putting all the twisting & turning force on the crank threads.
Use the hawk tool or whatever it's called, or get a piece of threaded rod long enough to pull it on with a nut and some washers. You might also want to weld a second nut on the end so you can back out the rod when your done.
There are plenty of people who have done it with the stock bolt but you just have to ask yourself if it's a risk you want to take.
You won't have a problem driving it, other than stalling, just don't put larger injectors in untill you get there.
Use the hawk tool or whatever it's called, or get a piece of threaded rod long enough to pull it on with a nut and some washers. You might also want to weld a second nut on the end so you can back out the rod when your done.
There are plenty of people who have done it with the stock bolt but you just have to ask yourself if it's a risk you want to take.
You won't have a problem driving it, other than stalling, just don't put larger injectors in untill you get there.
