Stumped. Car won't start & electronics die.
 

I’m at a loss and hoping those of you with much more LS1 smarts than I do can help out. My car died about two weeks ago and I was hoping it was just the starter. I have a 2000 WS6 (M6) that had an intermittent starter problem. The car always cranked very well, and fired right up strong every time. The problem was the last couple of weeks about 1/3 of the time the starter would not disengage from the flywheel.

Last week I drove it to work, I cranked it up and the starter gear stuck again. I got it to unstick after a little while and drove to work. Later that morning I went to crank it up again and got nothing. No click, clicking, turning over… just nothing. I still have power to everything else like the dash, power windows, headlights etc. So I push-started it and drove it home.

So far to diagnose the problem I have bypassed the VATS under the dash using resistors, bypassed the clutch switch, tested the starter & ignition relays (both good), checked the related fuses under the hood, charged the battery, and finally replaced the starter with a new one.

After I replaced the starter I tried to crank it for the first time, power hit the starter, it engaged for a split second and then everything went dead. Now I have no power at all to anything. No dash, the car doesn't 'ding' with the key in the ignition and the door open... nothing. It's as if there's no battery in the car at all. Even stranger is if I go back to the car after a couple of hours have passed I have power again to the dash, etc. But if I try to crank it again everything goes dead.

This is getting very frustrating to say the least. A buddy mentioned it may still be the VATS and there’s another way to reset/bypass it via the Monsoon system instead of the resistors, but I can’t find anything anywhere about this.

Does anyone have any ideas of what this problem could be?

Have you checked your cable connections at both ends. As in "at the battery" and where the ground and positive cables connect at the chassis/starter/fuse box etc?

Both of the cable connections are tight at the solenoid. When you say check the connections, do you mean follow the wires from the solenoid back to the battery for shorts? I'll also check the wires from the negative battery terminal to make sure it's grounded correctly. As you know these engines are shoehorned in the car which makes it difficult to follow wires... :bang:

What's throwing me off is I've always had power even when the engine wouldn't turn over, but after I replaced the starter now everything just dies when I try to crank it which is really stumping me.

Battery cables are an item that lasts years-but will eventually need replacement. They corrode inside where they're crimped to the lugs.

How many miles on this car?

I would highly suspect the cables are bad. I'd also have a good look at the ground connection points. If replacing the cables, 2 gauge is better (thicker) then the original 4 gauge.

I had this problem when the wire to my starter melted onto my headers. Bad part was I was driving when it happened.

I'm thinking there is a big short to ground somewhere.

Iv seen the wire relocate from the passenger fender be a problem with this. The wires rubbed onto the tire and had a very few strands still holding it together.

This is a odd problem but the starting system is fairly simple on these cars.

Stay with it, you will find it.

Thanks for the replies. The car has 130k miles on it.

After I try to crank it the car it goes dead with no power at all. Last night I took the negative battery cable off and then reconnected it and had power again. When I tried to crank it I heard a click from under the hood and everything went dead again.

I'll disconnect/reconnect the battery to get power back and have my wife try to crank while the garage is dark and I'll try to see a spark from a short. Otherwise I'll have to figure out how to find a short... as this is the first time I've had to find one. :confused:

Mine lasted only a couple of years from new, two Delco
batteries in a row leaked acid from the terminals and
chewed the hell out of the cheesy copper connectors.
Corroded in the crimp and on the contact face. Could
not see it until you peel back the protective plastic
cap.

I had to pull them out, clean the wire and solder them
up. Took a really stout (200W pistol) iron to do that.

A short is between positive & negative. It's pretty exciting with all the sparks and melting cables.

As this car is dead, it's not a short. Dead power with a charged battery means there's an OPEN.

There's no mention that this car has the fender harness mod. Even if it did and the wires had rubbed the tire, at minimum, the lights and radio would still function.

sounds like a battery to engine ground issue. on the engine side.

How would I find/diagnose an open?

I agree, and in my situation it did spark when I tried to jump it. Kinda surprised the car didn't catch fire beforehand. At any rate, I had fun scraping the welded on power wire off my headers.

Start by pulling off the cables from the battery. Inspect them good, bend them around at the lugs looking inside to see the copper. Then do the same on the other ends.

If you want to see if the ground or lack of a ground is the problem you can add a temporary ground and see if it fixes the problem. In the past I've used a set of jumper cables and just used one cable (Black) and hooked one end on the ground battery terminal and the other end to the engine either at the alternator bracket or other unpainted surface and see if it resolves the issue, You can also clamp it to a shock tower bolt if you want to test chassis ground.

you can also track it down with a multi meter

That's a good idea. My plan this weekend is to do this and check for shorts/opens. I may have to pull the starter again to get to the wires going back to the battery as there is no room at all to work or see the wires. I honestly don't know how to check with a multimeter, but Google can be my friend with this.

I'll give an update on what I find this weekend.

Thanks again for all of the help!

I'm almost sure it's your battery cables, or their connections. I had my truck die at a stop light, and it was totally dead no gauges/windows/locks. I got a jump so I could make it home and parked it. The next day I went to try to track down the problem and the gauges/windows/locks worked, then when I tried to start it they went dead, and it only clicked once. Almost exactly what you are describing. Yours may be loose at the starter or block or at the crimped end, or in the actual line. Cables are pretty cheap, and even if it's not your problem you probably have the original ones still on the car so it's not a bad idea to replace them anyways. Just make sure the ground to the battery is the first cable you undo, and the last one you connect.

if you have access to a multi meter, i would be happy to step you through tracking down your voltage. it's pretty simple.

Ok... I got the car running but feel like a complete idiot. I was still getting no power to the car, but sometimes I would get power to the dash (this is important later...) I pulled the starter bolts again to loosen it enough so I could see the wires coming from the battery so I could inspect for damage. This also gave me an opportunity to put anti-seize in the threads which I forgot to do the first time. Everything looked fine so I torqued everything back down.

So I started checking wires from the top. Everything seemed tight and nothing was terribly worn. I hooked up the negative battery terminal when all of a sudden it dawned on me... I've never checked the positive terminal. Well sure enough it was a little loose. I tightened it back up, got in the car, and it fired right up. The positive terminal was tight enough that I would get power to the dash but not enough power to crank the car.

I bench tested the old starter and it was bad. So I needed to replace it anyway, but for this wild goose chase to only turn out to be a loose positive battery terminal is good in that it was a cheap fix, but I feel like an idiot for not catching it sooner.

Thanks again for everyone's assistance in helping me figure this out. Yet another reason why I love these forums!

Alright!