Which 102mm or 105mm throttle body is best?? Updated w/dyno sheet & video - LS1TECH



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Which 102mm or 105mm throttle body is best?? Updated w/dyno sheet & video

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Old 02-07-2017, 10:49 PM   #1
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Smile Which 102mm or 105mm throttle body is best?? Updated w/dyno sheet & video

OK I currently have a FAST 102 LSXR Intake with a FAST 102 Big Mouth throttle body but seeking information as some have suggested that I should switch to a Nick Williams. The switch has been brought up because of low air idle tuning for my 408. But I've been seeing a lot of builders using Holleys Billet 105mm and 95mm but would like to know of they are worth the $530 Holley wants for them over my current FAST 102.

Might also be worth mentioning that the cam is fairly large 243/251, .624/.624, 111 LSA and using FAST 60# injectors.


I've been told that the FAST 102mm is hard to tune and that the NW throttle bodies are much easier? But reading on Holley's Billet 105mm sound pretty good and have seen MAST Motorsports use them on builds.




Update:

Well got the car tuned by The Shop Inc. here in Lincoln, NE and they did a great job straightening out the old Mail Order tune. The Shop told me when I stopped by it made 466 at the wheels on his Mustang Dyno.





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Last edited by neblackshirts; 03-14-2017 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Added words
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:48 PM   #2
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Looking to get car tuned in a few weeks and just curious on experience others have.
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:50 PM   #3
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If you haven't already, take a look at WARR Performance. I purchased one of their 92mm TB's. All the reviews I've read have been great, including numerous ones on here.
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:59 PM   #4
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The Holley has some nice adjustments. However, the NW is good and the price is right. The IAC passage is a good size on it.

And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:15 PM   #5
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The Holley has some nice adjustments. However, the NW is good and the price is right. The IAC passage is a good size on it.

And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
For now we opened up the blade a bit on the FAST 102 I have now and defiantly helped out in getting it to cold idle better and not stubble when coming off throttle while cruising fast. I realize much of this is probably in the tune but also heard that the NW throttle bodies are more responsive than the FAST.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:16 PM   #6
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I would check with your tuner and see what he is comfortable tuning.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:42 PM   #7
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I got one thing to say. Good luck tuning any 102!! What a pain I the ***. I like the warr performance it's cheap and works just as well as the expensive ones.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:45 PM   #8
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I got one thing to say. Good luck tuning any 102!! What a pain I the ***. I like the warr performance it's cheap and works just as well as the expensive ones.
Edit: they need more air than 0 IAC's. Get to 2% and go another 1/8 of a turn open.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:51 PM   #9
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And if you get to where you can't reset your TPS to 0% (.70V or so), then you'll need to drill the hole. That's where the Holley has some advantages - you can clock the TPS and open the blade more and adjust the IAC bypass without drilling a hole.

And then you'll have to tune your IAC table (since it's now way off) and then all of your PID airflow, Cracker/Follower, and everything else in idle airflow. I would estimate that it will take a pro about 2-3 hours to dial it in. Seriously.

A big *** cam is easier to tune than a 102.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:01 PM   #10
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And if you get to where you can't reset your TPS to 0% (.70V or so), then you'll need to drill the hole. That's where the Holley has some advantages - you can clock the TPS and open the blade more and adjust the IAC bypass without drilling a hole.

And then you'll have to tune your IAC table (since it's now way off) and then all of your PID airflow, Cracker/Follower, and everything else in idle airflow. I would estimate that it will take a pro about 2-3 hours to dial it in. Seriously.

A big *** cam is easier to tune than a 102.
What he said. I hired an expert. It took 2 1/2 hours and I am running Holley HP.
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:10 PM   #11
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Good info here, I'm basically wanting to find something easier to tune and maybe have better low rpm street manners. One tuner absolutely hates the FAST 102 currently on my car and has suggested the NW. Be he also wants me to scale everything down from the 102 intake and 102 throttle body to 92mm setup. But the car really runs hard on the 102 setup with a great flat broad power band peaking HP at 6400 and doesn't fall at all from 6400 - 6700 cutoff.
But if NW or Holley are going to be easiest to tune and offer benefits over the FAST I'll jump into that direction.
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:08 PM   #12
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FAST is fine.

One thing to do... open your blade some more. Then move everything in your IAC table to the right... probably 10-14 columns to the right. And then do RAFIG (Base Airflow Configuration) and get that dialed in. You want to be in the 40s or so hot IAC counts with the idle airflow within 1g of the MAF and/or Dynamic Airflow.

Once that's done, you can work on the lazy off-idle of the FAST. That stupid hump in it is supposed to keep it from surging... but it makes it lazy. You need almost twice the throttle to go the same speed vs the NW part throttle. WOT it doesn't matter. One way around it is to just nuke the Follower table and at 2-4% TPS ramp up a lot of airflow and set the multiplier to something crazy in the 1200RPM column to give you more juice off the line.
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:48 AM   #13
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FAST is fine.

One thing to do... open your blade some more. Then move everything in your IAC table to the right... probably 10-14 columns to the right. And then do RAFIG (Base Airflow Configuration) and get that dialed in. You want to be in the 40s or so hot IAC counts with the idle airflow within 1g of the MAF and/or Dynamic Airflow.

Once that's done, you can work on the lazy off-idle of the FAST. That stupid hump in it is supposed to keep it from surging... but it makes it lazy. You need almost twice the throttle to go the same speed vs the NW part throttle. WOT it doesn't matter. One way around it is to just nuke the Follower table and at 2-4% TPS ramp up a lot of airflow and set the multiplier to something crazy in the 1200RPM column to give you more juice off the line.
Thanks for the tip. I have not figured out how to get rid of the lean tip in condition at 1200 to 1600 rpm range. It will run very lean and needs alot of fuel between 1200 on 1600 rpms. The 102 is terrible from idle to 1600 after that is goes like mad.i only am at rpm range getting on the trailer so I haven't messed with it much.
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:05 AM   #14
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of they are worth the $530 Holley wants for them over my current FAST 102.
Nope.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeFusion View Post
The Holley has some nice adjustments. However, the NW is good and the price is right. The IAC passage is a good size on it.

And if you need, just drill a hole in the TB. You can tune your airflow around it pretty easily. You could even try that in the FAST before spending more money.
I'm in this current predicament myself. I plan to drill it maybe tomorrow to finalize some tuning. Any idea what size drill bit is sufficient to use on it?
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:28 AM   #16
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Thanks for the tip. I have not figured out how to get rid of the lean tip in condition at 1200 to 1600 rpm range. It will run very lean and needs alot of fuel between 1200 on 1600 rpms. The 102 is terrible from idle to 1600 after that is goes like mad.i only am at rpm range getting on the trailer so I haven't messed with it much.
Your current condition sounds a lot like my current issue. My idle is rough and hunts around, plus low rpm cruise is really bad but after 2k it cleans out then goes like hell to 6700. I run on just a SD tune but getting the tune dialed in Wednesday. No one has been able to get the TSP 100mm MAF to tune properly and a local shop says by Friday they can have the MAF and SD dialed in so pretty excited to see the difference from current tune.
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Old 02-12-2017, 03:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Thanks for the tip. I have not figured out how to get rid of the lean tip in condition at 1200 to 1600 rpm range. It will run very lean and needs alot of fuel between 1200 on 1600 rpms. The 102 is terrible from idle to 1600 after that is goes like mad.i only am at rpm range getting on the trailer so I haven't messed with it much.
SD or MAF?

It needs more fuel because there is more air. I have an issue where at 800rpm my numbers in the VE table are pretty damn low and lean. But at 1200... the fueling goes off the charts. And it makes return to idle fueling goofy. So what did I do? I basically have it broken at idle (60kPa) and below that, I let the car goes as lean as it wants (coast in neutral to see if the fueling is oscillating) and adjust as needed. But as soon as you crack open the throttle, you need to add a lot of fuel. I found the difference to be over 15% difference between closed blade and open blade in the 1200rpm column.

The TSP 100mm MAF should also tune very easily. I got the car working with both the larger cam I had in and the new sc cam in like 10 mins total. Like literally. 10 mins. And I could drive it anywhere. SD tune has required a lot more time to play with the follower tables, PID tables, and everything else. The MAF just absorbs all that.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:08 PM   #18
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Well I think that the 408 likes the current 102mm setup as stated above. Had people trying to talk me into a smaller setup but don't think that would be a beneficial move.
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Old 02-24-2017, 11:48 PM   #19
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One other thing I've noticed... I have gone through two parts store IACs with my 102. Neither one responds correctly to the IAC commands. So I've had to hack my IAC table and really push the counts stratospheric to get it to behave. Of course, the IAC passage may be garbage compared to stock. But I haven't found a true stock replacement IAC valve. So until I do, I have to work around it.

You may have some of those same issues.
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:05 PM   #20
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One other thing I've noticed... I have gone through two parts store IACs with my 102. Neither one responds correctly to the IAC commands. So I've had to hack my IAC table and really push the counts stratospheric to get it to behave. Of course, the IAC passage may be garbage compared to stock. But I haven't found a true stock replacement IAC valve. So until I do, I have to work around it.

You may have some of those same issues.
SketchyVert is in my area here in Lincoln, NE and I asked him what 102 throttle body he's running and he's running a NW 102 on his FAST 102 intake. Seems like those that are running a NW 102 really like them but honestly the FAST hasn't been terrible to me. I'm really interested to hear what people think of the Holley EFI 105mm.

https://www.holley.com/products/ls_p.../parts/112-583
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