Intake Manifold Flow Tests: LS1, LS6, TBSS, BBK, Dorman LS2, 102 Fast LSXRT & more
03-02-2017, 11:59 PM
#61
TECH Senior Member
03-03-2017, 06:28 AM
#62
My 99 TA had a bad turn of events during the valve spring swap. My resources will have to shift to repairing the TA instead of testing.
One of the valve guides broke and is sliding around when the engine runs. Lucky it has 1/8 or so still in the head holding the valve in place so the valve hasn't dropped so the head has to come off. Which means both heads need to come off to replace all lifters while in the motor. Rather than fix two high mile 125,000 old TEA 5.3 heads the heads in the test will have to go on the TA for the repair.
My GUESS is side loading the valve guide from the .581 lift XE-R cam with stock rockers is the root cause. Tony Mamo has warmed about side loading. However, 125,000 miles of the TEA. Stage 2 5.3's with an XE-R cam is pretty amazing with a set of stock rockers in my opinion. Given what I learn today I will post details in an internal engine thread.
Looks like the future testing is DOA. The repair will eat all of my test budget plus more cash and require using the cylinder heads used in the flow testing. Refurbishing the old 5.3's seems silly with a pair of stage 2 243's on the shelf.
Apologies to the forum for saying and suggesting I would do more tests and failing to deliver.
One of the valve guides broke and is sliding around when the engine runs. Lucky it has 1/8 or so still in the head holding the valve in place so the valve hasn't dropped so the head has to come off. Which means both heads need to come off to replace all lifters while in the motor. Rather than fix two high mile 125,000 old TEA 5.3 heads the heads in the test will have to go on the TA for the repair.
My GUESS is side loading the valve guide from the .581 lift XE-R cam with stock rockers is the root cause. Tony Mamo has warmed about side loading. However, 125,000 miles of the TEA. Stage 2 5.3's with an XE-R cam is pretty amazing with a set of stock rockers in my opinion. Given what I learn today I will post details in an internal engine thread.
Looks like the future testing is DOA. The repair will eat all of my test budget plus more cash and require using the cylinder heads used in the flow testing. Refurbishing the old 5.3's seems silly with a pair of stage 2 243's on the shelf.
Apologies to the forum for saying and suggesting I would do more tests and failing to deliver.
03-03-2017, 06:45 AM
#63
Does this mean there will be no more testing at all? I appreciate what you have done so far. Was really hoping to see the LS6 numbers to help decide whether it would be worth moving away from it for my application, but I understand that things happen.
03-03-2017, 09:27 AM
#65
My 99 TA had a bad turn of events during the valve spring swap. My resources will have to shift to repairing the TA instead of testing.
One of the valve guides broke and is sliding around when the engine runs. Lucky it has 1/8 or so still in the head holding the valve in place so the valve hasn't dropped so the head has to come off. Which means both heads need to come off to replace all lifters while in the motor. Rather than fix two high mile 125,000 old TEA 5.3 heads the heads in the test will have to go on the TA for the repair.
My GUESS is side loading the valve guide from the .581 lift XE-R cam with stock rockers is the root cause. Tony Mamo has warmed about side loading. However, 125,000 miles of the TEA. Stage 2 5.3's with an XE-R cam is pretty amazing with a set of stock rockers in my opinion. Given what I learn today I will post details in an internal engine thread.
Looks like the future testing is DOA. The repair will eat all of my test budget plus more cash and require using the cylinder heads used in the flow testing. Refurbishing the old 5.3's seems silly with a pair of stage 2 243's on the shelf.
Apologies to the forum for saying and suggesting I would do more tests and failing to deliver.
One of the valve guides broke and is sliding around when the engine runs. Lucky it has 1/8 or so still in the head holding the valve in place so the valve hasn't dropped so the head has to come off. Which means both heads need to come off to replace all lifters while in the motor. Rather than fix two high mile 125,000 old TEA 5.3 heads the heads in the test will have to go on the TA for the repair.
My GUESS is side loading the valve guide from the .581 lift XE-R cam with stock rockers is the root cause. Tony Mamo has warmed about side loading. However, 125,000 miles of the TEA. Stage 2 5.3's with an XE-R cam is pretty amazing with a set of stock rockers in my opinion. Given what I learn today I will post details in an internal engine thread.
Looks like the future testing is DOA. The repair will eat all of my test budget plus more cash and require using the cylinder heads used in the flow testing. Refurbishing the old 5.3's seems silly with a pair of stage 2 243's on the shelf.
Apologies to the forum for saying and suggesting I would do more tests and failing to deliver.
03-03-2017, 01:47 PM
#66
10 Second Club
the dorman is flowing better then the tbss intake out of the box up to about .600" of lift. the tbss intake is better then the ls6. and yes the fasts are better, the lsxrt tested proves that. but also at 1k versus 340. the dorman is not supposed to be a competitor for the aftermarket flowing high at the top. it is designed for a oem replacement for mid range power and so far it does that well.
03-03-2017, 09:25 PM
#68
TECH Senior Member
03-04-2017, 05:58 AM
#71
TECH Senior Member
Aftermarket, yes. Stock, no. The LS1 and LS2 are both inferior to the LS6. The TBSS is better, but will not fit low profile applications.
The LS6 is generally regarded to be one of the best stock cathedral head manifolds there is. I don't know where you get that the LS6 manifold is a turd. It is one of the most sought-after stock manifolds there is due to the level of performance it offers compared to LS1 and LS2. The aftermarket has better, but at a huge price difference. Bang for the buck, the LS6 is hard to beat.
The LS6 is generally regarded to be one of the best stock cathedral head manifolds there is. I don't know where you get that the LS6 manifold is a turd. It is one of the most sought-after stock manifolds there is due to the level of performance it offers compared to LS1 and LS2. The aftermarket has better, but at a huge price difference. Bang for the buck, the LS6 is hard to beat.
03-04-2017, 07:47 AM
#72
TBSS was best factory cathedral intake in this test. LS6 was second best factory cathedral.
Factory LS6 intakes still bring $350 to $450 in the classified section. I remembrr buying a couple brand new at the local Pontiac dealer for $440 back in 2002 & 2003. There's a LSXRT on the shelf in my garage that a tricked out TPiS Peak radical ported LS6 spanked at almost every rpm on the dyno test by 2 to 3 hp and 2-3 tq on my small cam 383 LS1. The old LS6 is still pretty good in some applications: )
The LS6 seems to have stood the test of time in my experience.
http://http://www.hotrod.com/article...ifolds-tested/
BTW - after a detailed discussion with Mike Norris, I decided to bring the 99TA home after they finish the spring swap. Until I can do at least 403 LS2 for the TA the car will mostly sit. I felt the car needs to be fixed right now however that is an emotional reaction, logically I can drive one of the other three cars this summer. Realistically this is my first real excuse ago improve the TA in 15 years. Other than a couple of O2 sensors, PVC line, power window motor, 2 speakers, and an AC compressor the TA hasn't had any issues to deal with since the GM warranty expired 15 years ago. Might as well take the time to do it right. With this events the intake testing is on hold until the TA is back home from the shop. I don't want to get to much going on at one time.
Factory LS6 intakes still bring $350 to $450 in the classified section. I remembrr buying a couple brand new at the local Pontiac dealer for $440 back in 2002 & 2003. There's a LSXRT on the shelf in my garage that a tricked out TPiS Peak radical ported LS6 spanked at almost every rpm on the dyno test by 2 to 3 hp and 2-3 tq on my small cam 383 LS1. The old LS6 is still pretty good in some applications: )
The LS6 seems to have stood the test of time in my experience.
http://http://www.hotrod.com/article...ifolds-tested/
BTW - after a detailed discussion with Mike Norris, I decided to bring the 99TA home after they finish the spring swap. Until I can do at least 403 LS2 for the TA the car will mostly sit. I felt the car needs to be fixed right now however that is an emotional reaction, logically I can drive one of the other three cars this summer. Realistically this is my first real excuse ago improve the TA in 15 years. Other than a couple of O2 sensors, PVC line, power window motor, 2 speakers, and an AC compressor the TA hasn't had any issues to deal with since the GM warranty expired 15 years ago. Might as well take the time to do it right. With this events the intake testing is on hold until the TA is back home from the shop. I don't want to get to much going on at one time.
03-04-2017, 08:50 AM
#73
TECH Senior Member
Thank you 99 Black Bird T/A! I have a hard time when someone makes a stupid remark that goes in contrast to reality.
I hope you get your ride back in shape soon. Your efforts in this thread are greatly appreciated! What was done so far is helpful, mostly in showing how good the Dorman manifolds appear to be. Thanks again!
I hope you get your ride back in shape soon. Your efforts in this thread are greatly appreciated! What was done so far is helpful, mostly in showing how good the Dorman manifolds appear to be. Thanks again!
03-04-2017, 09:07 AM
#74
10 Second Club
Aftermarket, yes. Stock, no. The LS1 and LS2 are both inferior to the LS6. The TBSS is better, but will not fit low profile applications.
The LS6 is generally regarded to be one of the best stock cathedral head manifolds there is. I don't know where you get that the LS6 manifold is a turd. It is one of the most sought-after stock manifolds there is due to the level of performance it offers compared to LS1 and LS2. The aftermarket has better, but at a huge price difference. Bang for the buck, the LS6 is hard to beat.
The LS6 is generally regarded to be one of the best stock cathedral head manifolds there is. I don't know where you get that the LS6 manifold is a turd. It is one of the most sought-after stock manifolds there is due to the level of performance it offers compared to LS1 and LS2. The aftermarket has better, but at a huge price difference. Bang for the buck, the LS6 is hard to beat.
03-04-2017, 01:11 PM
#76
I want to see gearheads make informed decisions and pick the best part for their application and budget regardles if its an old part or a new part.
If you have data please contribute.
Thank you.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 03-04-2017 at 01:17 PM.
03-04-2017, 01:20 PM
#77
TECH Senior Member
^^^^^ This ^^^^^^
Plus, big hammer, you might want to pull that pic of your sister down. Not a good look...
Plus, big hammer, you might want to pull that pic of your sister down. Not a good look...
03-04-2017, 05:43 PM
#78
10 Second Club
I remember when gearheads kept an open mind and made judgements based on testing and results for a given part in an appropriate application.
I want to see gearheads make informed decisions and pick the best part for their application and budget regardles if its an old part or a new part.
If you have data please contribute.
Thank you.
I want to see gearheads make informed decisions and pick the best part for their application and budget regardles if its an old part or a new part.
If you have data please contribute.
Thank you.
03-04-2017, 08:23 PM
#79
TECH Senior Member
You know, but have nothing to substantiate it......