BamaWS6

Well i put in a set of br7ef plugs gapped to .035 and i now have a very crappy idle with poor driveability. I changed because i installed a nitrous system but the idle is unbearable. I installed new wires and no change. I then stuck the stock plugs back in and the car runs perfect and installed a second set of br7s and idle went right back to crap. I know 100% my problem is the plugs i just dont know what to do about it. Is there another plug safe for nitrous i can try?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

You need more timing. They are a colder plug. Ramp up your timing at idle and low airmass areas of your main timing map and idle maps.

I would add 4 degrees from .032g and down across the tables.

BamaWS6

That may fix it but seeing as how there has been zero tuning on my car thats simply not an option at this time. In every other car i have had it was simply a matter of finding the correct plug. There is so much conflicting information out there its hard to get to the core of the issue. Im thinking that i need to switch to the tr7ix or the tr6 like holley recommends but im not sure how those would do on the bottle. Every ls tuner i have talked to said tuning isnt needed until over a 100 shot. Currently mine is on 75 and it runs great on and off the bottle other than idling in traffic.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

The plug is too cold for your application. You have to increase timing for it to run correctly. Or you need to find a non-projected 6 range plug. Like a BR6EF/3177.

*shrugs*

G Atsma

Either listen to JakeFusion, who knows of which he speaks or this- GET HOTTER PLUGS!

BamaWS6

Well i typed a big long response and clicked the wrong button ...... oh well. Anyways i do value your input and im not trying to be argumentative. I cant wrap my head around why holley recommends the tr6 but the LS guys say no pro-tip.

G Atsma

The somebody out there who KNOWS what he is talking about is right here and his name here is JakeFusion. He's been around this stuff longer than you or I. He's trying to help, and you might listen as he can only repeat himself so many times.

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

If you're only spraying a 75 shot and are basically stock, a tr6 will be perfectly fine.

BamaWS6

The G astma guy could learn something from you. I asked for input on plugs and you gave your opinion. I appreciate you and jakes input.

G Atsma

All I said was listen to Jake, and you now appreciate it. Before that YOU were being the jerk. He said your plugs were too cold. That would indicate a hotter plug. Jake would agree.
Plus, you really should learn to spell.....
BCNU....

BamaWS6

I spell just fine and i wasnt being a jerk i was trying to have a discussion. Emotion cant be seen thru text. Now please buzz off

G Atsma

SMH, lol

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

You don't have to run a non-projected tip plug with a 75 shot. Or even a 150 shot. Although, the idea with the non-projected plug is that the nitrous won't either 1) blow out the spark or 2) worse, the plug won't turn into a flaming glowstick and kaboom the engine.

But it sounds like you have a stock engine with a 75 shot on it? Is that correct? A full set of mods would help. Most folks go straight to the 7s because they have other mods like heads/cams or other things that can increase cylinder pressure. And they tune the car so they can make them work on the street while driving around.

And I know you didn't ask for tuning advice. But what I'm telling you is you can't drop a 7 series plug into a stock engine with a stock tune and expect it to work. I don't really care what anybody tells you. If I'm selling you a nitrous kit and plugs, I'm assuming you are going to read the plugs and tune the car accordingly. The plugs are designed to be used with a modded engine and you have to tune it to make it work. My suggestion of using the BR6EF is more of a bandaid with the fouling of the plugs you are experiencing until you get the car tuned. The BR7EFs are a better plug, especially at 150 shots or more. And once you get up to 225+ you may even want to step up to an 8-series race plug or B8EFS. But they have a new set of issues as they are not resistor type plugs.

So in summary, a colder heat range is useful when you get to 100-150HP over stock, higher compression, or are using nitrous/boost to increase cylinder pressure (and the rule of thumb is for every 100HP added go a range colder with nitrous). The non-projected tip will be safer and may pick up better on the gas (think of the non-projected tip as like a half step colder).

But if you're basically on a stock car and haven't tuned it... and you're running rich with low timing in low load areas, you'll foul the BR7EFs. I recommend tuning it if you're going to push a 100 shot or more. You'll need to pull timing in the higher airmass areas of your tune. And then you can adjust the air mixture and idle or lower airmass area timing. That will make the car drive better.

If you search here, you'll see it's not uncommon to have issues with drivability with the BR7EF. So there's some finesse to making them work.

Also - both of you need to cool your ****. If I have to referee you guys, I'll put you on a 7-day vacation from the site.

zachm89

iTrader: (14)

So you want to run nitrous and not tune the car for it at all, not even a little bit? I'd agree with blk00ss though that a tr6 "should" be just fine and definitely help your idling issues. But look at it this way, you're not going to be spraying the car at idle. Ultimately I would have to side with Jake and say tune for the nitrous and the colder plugs to fix the idle and also when you'll actually be using the nitrous. Good luck

BamaWS6

Thats the info i was looking for....... i added my mods to my sig, the engine is completely stock other than those. I originally thought the 7 plug would cause it to run poorly but there were several people on other forums that said it was the only plug they would use. The car ran poorly immediately after the plug change so i knew it was wrong for my application. It is a bandaid to put br6 or tr6 plugs in it but im wanting to get thru the summer before i get a tune because i will be changing heads/cam, stall and gears over this next winter.

BamaWS6

Again i know tuning is the right way to do it but hundreds if not thousands of people spray 100 or less without a tune. And in all honesty a tune can do more harm than good if b its a mailorder tune with gobs of timing added.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Lol at, " I put nitrous on my car" combined with "I will NOT tune my car".

BamaWS6

Obviously you cant read. Why are there so many trolls here? Never did i say that, i plan to tune the car in the winter. It is a well known FACT that a tune is optional at 75hp or less. Ive done it on sbc, sbf, honda and klde. As a matter of fact i had a klde with 13psi boost and only a vortech fmu and walbro 255 with 100% stock tune and injectors. Might not have been the best idea but it lived for 2 years like that as a daily driver. Now i have no plans on pushing the limits of my ls1 without a tune and a 75 shot is nowhere near its limit with the correct plugs and fuel.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

just cause your brothers uncles cousins twin did something doesn't mean it's a good idea. Any boost on stock injectors is idiotic.And just a heads up, I've seen a stock car with exhaust have the maf tables off by 30 percent.....lean. Should be real safe if that happens with some nitrous on top....ignorance really must be bliss until you lift a ringland.

BamaWS6

Not worried about running lean considering the car already runs on the rich side AND my fuel jet is slightly larger than its supposed to be. I have talked to a nitrous company here in town and an ls tuner in huntsville about what im doing and they tell me i can spray 125 on stock tune although i wont be going over 75. When i boosted the klde i did it to prove a point and i had a spare engine laying around. I dont consider that idiotic...... it was a blast and very worth eventually killing a ring landing. Im not disagreeing with you on the fact that a tune is the correct way to do it but you and i both know the stock timing advance is very minimal in comparison to a custom tune and probably less or equal to than a custom nitrous tune. I have experience with nitrous on several other platforms and i didnt ask for advice on that in the first place. I simply asked for a colder plug that would give me a decent idle. My little wideband and reading the plugs tells me the car is still rich enough.