dyno's with filter and without
 

Hi guys,

Post your dyno's with filter and without filter, cuz i wont to know what's the best thing for race,

Note: i have K&N filter, TB ported, SLP MAF, LS6 intake, LID, kit cam MMS, ASP.

Thanks

God saves US ARMY <img border="0" alt="[USA]" title="" src="graemlins/patriot.gif" />

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

Exactamundo.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

Not much difference at all.

Back long before I did my motor. I did back to back pulls on a DynoJet 248C

Pull 1 was with a K&N filter = 316rwhp
Pull 2 was with a paper Fram filter = 318rwhp

Torque was just the opposite. I don't remember the number, but the K&N put 2 more lbs-ft out over the regular paper Fram. The only difference in the runs was the 30 seconds it took to swap filters.

I don't think I never did a non-filter run.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

so you advice to K&N filter ..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

Yes and no.

Obvisouly it does not give you the 40% more power as K&N advertises (or whatever their claim is). They both made identical power numbers. I consider the 2rwhp and 2lbs-ft negligible as it could go either way and simple things such as heat soak and even test conditions could vary slightly. I'll sum it up by saying...they're even in terms of power.

The Advantage though to the K&N is it's cleanability and re-usability. Whereas the paper...we all know what happens to that when it gets dirty.

That's why I stick with my K&N...it's serviceability aspect.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

If you read K&N's advertisements carefully,
they seem to refer to using a high-flow lid
and then they compare their lid & filter combo
against the stock lid & filter. All the gain
is in the lid.

You can replace a paper filter for like $3,
and you can do that about 15 times for the
price of a K&N. Mine's still clean-looking
at 8K miles, so I'll have to roll over 100K
(or take up driving on dirt roads) before
the K&N is any kind of money saver.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> posted June 11, 2002 07:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw a minimal difference between paper and
the Donaldson filter in my "Shop Vac Test".
That is, at whatever flow rate the shop vac
was capable of, [totally uncalibrated, but
relatively repeatable] These are the pressure
drops I recorded, in inches of water:

Lid, no filter: 0 - same as open shop vac port
Lid, Donaldson: 1/2"
Lid, Purolator: 3/4"
Lid, Fram: 7/8"
Lid, OEM: 7/8"

By comparison:
OEM Lid, open: 1-1/8""
MAF with screen: 2"

The Oiled membrane filters will be somewhere
between the paper filters, and nothing. Yeah,
you could gain a whole 1/2" H2O of pressure.
That's like, what, 0.02PSI of boost. Maybe the
intake flows twice as much as my shop vac. Call
it 0.04PSI. Our throttle area is < 2X as big.

On the supercharger price/performance scale,
you're looking at something like $300 per PSI
of boost.

So if the filter costs more than $12, it's more
expensive per lb of boost - incremental horse-
power - than a supercharger.

From what I read, each PSI of boost looks good
for maybe 30 HP. Sanity check this as 325HP stock
HP / 14.7 PSI = 22 HP/PSI.

So using the latter, the ultimate filter [zero
drop] would give you about 22HP/PSI*0.04PSI or
1HP over the better paper ones.

Woo-hoo! Ain't science fun?

I put the Donaldson in a box and run with the
Purolator since that last horsepower isn't
someting I use often and the filter's not
cheap [I dunno if I can even get a replacement]. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

I agree about the lid thing. But, keep this in mind. Generally when one gets a K&N filter, they are doing (or have done) a lid already and have already seen a gain from it. If the gain is in the lid, then what's the advantage to the filter? That's what I basically stated in my original posts. Other than reusibility I don't see it.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

I'm pretty sure I gained 3 RWHP without the filter, went from 308 to 311. I don't have the graph in front of me though.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

The info JimmyBlue posted is correct in substance but the math is way off. Assuming that an LS1 flows twice as much air as his vaccuum is pretty far off base, else Hoover would have released an electric supercharger kit some time ago <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

IMO The K&N is not worth it. Having a lid that has smooth transitions into the MAF opening (to minimize flow separation as much as possible) is way more important than the flowrate through the filter. Fram gets my money.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

The gains are not going to be noticed on a dyno or without any type of forced induction. You need more volume and velocity to see the difference. Also, a paper filter may not show much differences when new to a k&n, but after 10K on a paper try and compare to 10k on a k&n. Paper is less porous than a k&n, there for it takes smaller particles to block the air passages. K&ns can be more porous because the material they use can hold oil which soaks up the particles that would clog these pores, allowing more air to flow and for longer high flowing life. Then when you do have any type of forced induction you will be collecting much more dirt and any other junk so now your paper filter is good for 5-10k at the most. I have FRA and I noticed a visual difference in the amount of junk collected going from no ram air to FRA.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

When my engine was stock , I did back to back runs at the track and with the K&N i went 13.19 at 107mph and with the factory air filter I went 13.3? and 13.4? . both at 105 mph. I put the k&n back in and with th same 60 ft. I went 13.16 at 107.9 mph. On the dyno you will not see the gain as the stock filter lets it breath enough but at high speed the k&n will let it ram air faster. Now with the heads and cam, I run without the filter because I see almost a tenth over the k&N with the ram air hood and fast toys ram air from the bottom.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

not to forget if you do the free mods or some other mod to let more air in ( and possibly water) the oil in the filer is very helpful in stoping the water, I went with the holley fits much better.
just my .02 <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

Ive done some test at Rockingham running on the same day say 3 runs with/3 runs without. I get a fairly consistant .1 sec and 1 mph running without. Now i never have compared running a paper next to the filter. I have a holley by the way. And with the FTRA, it gets nasty so quick it not even funny. A huge, dirty PITA to clean it too. I'll stick with it only because i think the oil does help stop fine water particles better. Just my .02

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

any body hear about the amsoil filter? i heard it lets in mor air than a k&n and also keeps out more dirt and stuff <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" />

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

My dyno #'s went up a bit when I took the K&N out and did a pull...went up nearly 5 full hp.

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

what I'm wondering is where you get a replacement paper filter for $3?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

Another Holley filter user who gained a whole 3HP on the dyno when I removed the filter...

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bads02Z28:
<strong>Also, a paper filter may not show much differences when new to a k&n, but after 10K on a paper try and compare to 10k on a k&n.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I dynoed with a dirty Fram filter (I forgot to replace it with a new one before dynoing). It had been in there for well over 10k miles. I took the filter out and made a pull with no filter and gained about 5.5rwhp (this was also on the 3rd pull which usually makes the most power anyway). If a dirty K&N flows more air than a dirty Fram, the amount of power difference still seems pretty minimal. Just some FYI. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

I've never had a k&n, but when you clean it, don't you have to re-oil it (recharge kit runs like $10) I was thinking the recharge kit is more than a new paper filter, so I'm using a fram and replace it about every 10k (actually, only replaced it once...18k on the car)

Re: dyno's with filter and without
 

Yes the recharge kit is $10 but you can use it several times. Its good for many more than one charge. I bought a lid and filter kit that came with the recharge kit so I did not have to go buy one. Also, the local parts store has sales where you buy a K&N and you get the recharge kit for free. Murrey's I think.