Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today
03-29-2002, 02:05 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>It's not that I don't appreciate the effort or think that more controlled study isn't required, just sharing my personal results.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It will be interesting to see how it does with the big cubes. Nobody has tested it yet with added cubes, or are those 435 RWHP #'s from a stroker? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
<strong>It's not that I don't appreciate the effort or think that more controlled study isn't required, just sharing my personal results.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It will be interesting to see how it does with the big cubes. Nobody has tested it yet with added cubes, or are those 435 RWHP #'s from a stroker? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />
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03-29-2002, 03:36 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Geez Terry, if Weather guy picks up 5rwhp I don't think that's bad at all.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If he picks up 5rwhp with the hood all the way closed I'll be impressed.
Geez Terry, if Weather guy picks up 5rwhp I don't think that's bad at all.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If he picks up 5rwhp with the hood all the way closed I'll be impressed.
03-29-2002, 03:45 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Geez Terry, if Weather guy picks up 5rwhp I don't think that's bad at all.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If he picks up 5rwhp with the hood all the way closed I'll be impressed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Theres a fair test.. be sure to test the lid with the hood closed also <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> then we can all discuss how a dyno cant compensate for air flow when a car is in motion.. i guess ALL dynos should be with the hood closed.. or just FIPK ones??
I love it when picking up 5rwhp is considered a failure.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Geez Terry, if Weather guy picks up 5rwhp I don't think that's bad at all.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If he picks up 5rwhp with the hood all the way closed I'll be impressed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Theres a fair test.. be sure to test the lid with the hood closed also <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> then we can all discuss how a dyno cant compensate for air flow when a car is in motion.. i guess ALL dynos should be with the hood closed.. or just FIPK ones??
I love it when picking up 5rwhp is considered a failure.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
03-29-2002, 03:48 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>If he picks up 5rwhp with the hood all the way closed I'll be impressed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why does it matter? As long as the comparative tests are both done the same way, hood open, hood closed or underwater and any other variables can be accounted for - all you're interested in is the delta. A gain is a gain.
<strong>If he picks up 5rwhp with the hood all the way closed I'll be impressed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why does it matter? As long as the comparative tests are both done the same way, hood open, hood closed or underwater and any other variables can be accounted for - all you're interested in is the delta. A gain is a gain.
03-29-2002, 07:53 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today BTW I've done back to back dyno testing with a lid and FIPK so I am qualified to have an opinion on this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
03-29-2002, 07:53 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today It matters because
A) You go down the track with the hood closed
B) I suspect an open hood greatly benefits the FIPK setup and has very little impact on a traditional lid
A) You go down the track with the hood closed
B) I suspect an open hood greatly benefits the FIPK setup and has very little impact on a traditional lid
03-29-2002, 08:34 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today Well - no results until tomorrow. Went to MTI, and after a couple of bizarre dyno results, it turns out that my O2s are bad. So back out there tomorrow, replace the O2s, and then the results.
Incidentally, I did have one run showing around 491 RWHP with the FIPK, same as before with a lid(but with a different block), but the dyno trace was too erractic due to the O2s.
Incidentally, I did have one run showing around 491 RWHP with the FIPK, same as before with a lid(but with a different block), but the dyno trace was too erractic due to the O2s.
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03-29-2002, 11:21 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>It matters because
A) You go down the track with the hood closed
B) I suspect an open hood greatly benefits the FIPK setup and has very little impact on a traditional lid</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may go down the track with the hood closed, but it's hard to compare anything when you're running FRA. That's why they need to be track-tested as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> As for which would benefit more from an open hood, I think the benefit would be equal. No matter where either setup is sucking its air from, they're both still pulling in the cooler air by having the hood open.
Weatherguy - Good luck w/ another shot tomorrow. Hopefully you'll get some clean pulls.
<strong>It matters because
A) You go down the track with the hood closed
B) I suspect an open hood greatly benefits the FIPK setup and has very little impact on a traditional lid</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may go down the track with the hood closed, but it's hard to compare anything when you're running FRA. That's why they need to be track-tested as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> As for which would benefit more from an open hood, I think the benefit would be equal. No matter where either setup is sucking its air from, they're both still pulling in the cooler air by having the hood open.
Weatherguy - Good luck w/ another shot tomorrow. Hopefully you'll get some clean pulls.
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03-29-2002, 11:57 PM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>It matters because
A) You go down the track with the hood closed
B) I suspect an open hood greatly benefits the FIPK setup and has very little impact on a traditional lid</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually based on what I've traced out on the air flow dynamic on a Z the FIPK's advantage over a lid would probably be even greater with the hood closed and at speed.
The FIPK will take advantage of the air that's flowing along the hood, not just the air 3" below the hood.
Terry just out of curosity, when you did your test did you have the stock shroud in place with
!FRA?
<strong>It matters because
A) You go down the track with the hood closed
B) I suspect an open hood greatly benefits the FIPK setup and has very little impact on a traditional lid</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually based on what I've traced out on the air flow dynamic on a Z the FIPK's advantage over a lid would probably be even greater with the hood closed and at speed.
The FIPK will take advantage of the air that's flowing along the hood, not just the air 3" below the hood.
Terry just out of curosity, when you did your test did you have the stock shroud in place with
!FRA?
03-30-2002, 12:08 AM
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Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today I'm going to head out to MTI in about an hour to get some minor tuning issues done and then do back to back dynos of an FIPK versus Lid/FRA on the 422. I will post results as soon as I get them. Will be interesting.
03-30-2002, 12:44 AM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>I'll save you the trouble. You'll pick up around 3-5rwhp on the dyno, and no et/mph at the track.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Terry, we need more than just one or two data points. That is the entire point of doing this. You may be entirely right, I might lose horsepower, or I could gain 15. Who knows yet? We have already seen substantial variations in how cars respond to the "identical" camshaft.
In statistician's words, I need both mu and sigma (the mean and the standard deviation).
<strong>I'll save you the trouble. You'll pick up around 3-5rwhp on the dyno, and no et/mph at the track.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Terry, we need more than just one or two data points. That is the entire point of doing this. You may be entirely right, I might lose horsepower, or I could gain 15. Who knows yet? We have already seen substantial variations in how cars respond to the "identical" camshaft.
In statistician's words, I need both mu and sigma (the mean and the standard deviation).
03-30-2002, 12:48 AM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today Geez Terry, if Weather guy picks up 5rwhp I don't think that's bad at all.
I'd like to see a dyno comparo of:
-Lid, with airfilter inside
-No lid and no filter
-FIPK
I'd like to see a dyno comparo of:
-Lid, with airfilter inside
-No lid and no filter
-FIPK
03-30-2002, 12:53 AM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today It's not that I don't appreciate the effort or think that more controlled study isn't required, just sharing my personal results.
03-30-2002, 09:30 AM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today I'm with Terry on this one (hell after all, wouldn't want to **** off the new icy hot stunna)!
Hood closed is the only fair way to do this test, unless you plan on driving with your hood open. The FIPK will get no ram air affect, just suck in the hot engine bay air (it wasn't designed for a ram air/cold air). The FTRA will pull in "cooler" air from underneath the engine (and keep in mind real world results [actually moving] would allow the ftra to really shine.
Hood closed is the only fair way to do this test, unless you plan on driving with your hood open. The FIPK will get no ram air affect, just suck in the hot engine bay air (it wasn't designed for a ram air/cold air). The FTRA will pull in "cooler" air from underneath the engine (and keep in mind real world results [actually moving] would allow the ftra to really shine.
03-30-2002, 09:54 AM
#19
Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today If you have FRA, it's going to work very well with the FIPK. I have it done on my SS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I hope to make it to an 1/8-mile track this coming Wednesday to try both the FIPK and lid/filter combos, both with FRA. It will be nice to finally have some solid track results instead of another opinion.
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03-30-2002, 10:59 AM
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Re: Will dyno FIPK versus Lid/FRA on 422 today </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jacobi:
<strong>I'm with Terry on this one (hell after all, wouldn't want to **** off the new icy hot stunna)!
Hood closed is the only fair way to do this test, unless you plan on driving with your hood open. The FIPK will get no ram air affect, just suck in the hot engine bay air (it wasn't designed for a ram air/cold air). The FTRA will pull in "cooler" air from underneath the engine (and keep in mind real world results [actually moving] would allow the ftra to really shine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">God.. who to quote?? lol
Keep in mind how the FIPK functions on the dyno with the hood closed is completely different from how it functions normally (with the car in motion).. in my case (with the SS hood) it not has outside air being introduced through the front of the car but also from the SS hood.. extensive autotap shows that with the car in motion IAT is at outside ambient..
I doubt the normal lid and ss hood setup provides ANY ram air effect.. and while the FTRA or FRA dose introduct outside air Ive never felt it actually producted enough of a pressurized effect to be called Ram Air.. cold air induction yes.. and before the flames start.. i am NOT saying the FTRA dosent work.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Dynoing a lid with the hood close would hurt its dyno performance (again with a SS hood) since it not only has to "draw" air in through the little slot but also through the entire circular track of the hood vent.. so if your going to dyno the FIPK with the hood closed then fine but in fairness sake dyno the lid in the same manner.. besides having the hood open for a dyno has more to do with the wire running to the engine and ease for the dyno operators.. Oh, and helping keep the engine temp down since you would need a HELL of a fan to simulate the amount of air flow on a top speed run..
<strong>I'm with Terry on this one (hell after all, wouldn't want to **** off the new icy hot stunna)!
Hood closed is the only fair way to do this test, unless you plan on driving with your hood open. The FIPK will get no ram air affect, just suck in the hot engine bay air (it wasn't designed for a ram air/cold air). The FTRA will pull in "cooler" air from underneath the engine (and keep in mind real world results [actually moving] would allow the ftra to really shine.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">God.. who to quote?? lol
Keep in mind how the FIPK functions on the dyno with the hood closed is completely different from how it functions normally (with the car in motion).. in my case (with the SS hood) it not has outside air being introduced through the front of the car but also from the SS hood.. extensive autotap shows that with the car in motion IAT is at outside ambient..
I doubt the normal lid and ss hood setup provides ANY ram air effect.. and while the FTRA or FRA dose introduct outside air Ive never felt it actually producted enough of a pressurized effect to be called Ram Air.. cold air induction yes.. and before the flames start.. i am NOT saying the FTRA dosent work.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Dynoing a lid with the hood close would hurt its dyno performance (again with a SS hood) since it not only has to "draw" air in through the little slot but also through the entire circular track of the hood vent.. so if your going to dyno the FIPK with the hood closed then fine but in fairness sake dyno the lid in the same manner.. besides having the hood open for a dyno has more to do with the wire running to the engine and ease for the dyno operators.. Oh, and helping keep the engine temp down since you would need a HELL of a fan to simulate the amount of air flow on a top speed run..