Coolant in oil? Previous owner at fault? rebuilt engine?
07-17-2018, 08:22 PM
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Coolant in oil? Previous owner at fault? rebuilt engine? 
Was getting longtube headers installed on my 02 bird on the driver side and had to remove oil filter and plug. As I was draining got a small amount of coolant come out of plug.
So I begin to take the head apart and noticed some of the head bolts were loose and reused. And also thread sealant was not used. Felt the block for cracks and didn’t feel anything. Headgaskets are still good. Could this cause coolant to end up in the oil pan?
07-18-2018, 10:51 AM
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Because it definitely was not torqued properly either. And whoever the mechanic that did the rebuild reused the tty bolts. I’ll see what happens once I get the head inspected and resurfaced.
07-18-2018, 11:17 AM
#4
Im not sure how you can tell that they reused the tty bolts but a loose bolt will allow oil to pass into water passage and the other way around. If the bolts were that loose and the gasket not compressed then the gasket wasnt sealing and would not have had a chance to fail since it wasnt doing its job in the first place. I would drain the radiator since oil pressure is higher than water pressure. Next, drive to the PO's house and slap him in the *****
07-18-2018, 01:19 PM
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I believed it was reused because the rebuild is only 500 miles. The bolts shouldn’t look like that I wouldn’t believe. But thank you guys for your answers. I usually freak out about the little of things and think way more into it then just being a torque/sealant issue.
07-18-2018, 07:35 PM
#7
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Bolts definately don’t look new, but many people on Tech say they re-use the Oem bolts. Being loose, would tell me that the fastener has reached Yield, and prolly needs thrown away, IF the previous used the correct method of torquing them.
how much coolant did you actually see?
what does the oil look like?
how much coolant did you actually see?
what does the oil look like?
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07-26-2018, 07:22 AM
#9
Coolant is under ... what ... 15 psi?
Cylinders are under ...more like ... 1500 psi?
Same gasket.
Get logical. If the bolts are loose, WHICH ONE IS GOING TO LEEEEK?
Do you see any evidence of that?
Not saying the PO did everything right; not saying, go ahead re-use stock head bolts; not saying, those aren't re-used; not not not not not. Don't put words in my mouth.
What I AM saying is, the coolant in the oil didn't come from the head gasket.
Not really seeing any evidence of oil in the coolant.
No need for sealer on LS engine head bolts; the holes are blind.
I believe I'd put all that other crap OUT OF MY MIND, and get serious about finding the coolant -> oil issue. I'd be looking at castings for cracks, specifically. Otherwise, I'd put fairly high odds on, you put the motor back together with all due care and diligence, and the problem is still there.
Cylinders are under ...more like ... 1500 psi?
Same gasket.
Get logical. If the bolts are loose, WHICH ONE IS GOING TO LEEEEK?
Do you see any evidence of that?
Not saying the PO did everything right; not saying, go ahead re-use stock head bolts; not saying, those aren't re-used; not not not not not. Don't put words in my mouth.
What I AM saying is, the coolant in the oil didn't come from the head gasket.
Not really seeing any evidence of oil in the coolant.
No need for sealer on LS engine head bolts; the holes are blind.
I believe I'd put all that other crap OUT OF MY MIND, and get serious about finding the coolant -> oil issue. I'd be looking at castings for cracks, specifically. Otherwise, I'd put fairly high odds on, you put the motor back together with all due care and diligence, and the problem is still there.
07-27-2018, 06:08 AM
#10
Coolant is under ... what ... 15 psi?
Cylinders are under ...more like ... 1500 psi?
Same gasket.
Get logical. If the bolts are loose, WHICH ONE IS GOING TO LEEEEK?
Do you see any evidence of that?
Not saying the PO did everything right; not saying, go ahead re-use stock head bolts; not saying, those aren't re-used; not not not not not. Don't put words in my mouth.
What I AM saying is, the coolant in the oil didn't come from the head gasket.
Not really seeing any evidence of oil in the coolant.
No need for sealer on LS engine head bolts; the holes are blind.
I believe I'd put all that other crap OUT OF MY MIND, and get serious about finding the coolant -> oil issue. I'd be looking at castings for cracks, specifically. Otherwise, I'd put fairly high odds on, you put the motor back together with all due care and diligence, and the problem is still there.
Cylinders are under ...more like ... 1500 psi?
Same gasket.
Get logical. If the bolts are loose, WHICH ONE IS GOING TO LEEEEK?
Do you see any evidence of that?
Not saying the PO did everything right; not saying, go ahead re-use stock head bolts; not saying, those aren't re-used; not not not not not. Don't put words in my mouth.
What I AM saying is, the coolant in the oil didn't come from the head gasket.
Not really seeing any evidence of oil in the coolant.
No need for sealer on LS engine head bolts; the holes are blind.
I believe I'd put all that other crap OUT OF MY MIND, and get serious about finding the coolant -> oil issue. I'd be looking at castings for cracks, specifically. Otherwise, I'd put fairly high odds on, you put the motor back together with all due care and diligence, and the problem is still there.
I have seen more than once a head gasket leaking coolant externally and the engine run perfectly fine with no compression leaks. So depending on where the leak is occurring I could see water only entering the oil. Although the oil should have looked like a chocolate milkshake unless the engine was sitting for several weeks before he pulled the drain plug?
07-27-2018, 06:32 AM
#11
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While it is possible he may have another issue, if I had a loose head bolt and coolant in oil I would defiantly suspect the head gasket.
I have seen more than once a head gasket leaking coolant externally and the engine run perfectly fine with no compression leaks. So depending on where the leak is occurring I could see water only entering the oil. Although the oil should have looked like a chocolate milkshake unless the engine was sitting for several weeks before he pulled the drain plug?
I have seen more than once a head gasket leaking coolant externally and the engine run perfectly fine with no compression leaks. So depending on where the leak is occurring I could see water only entering the oil. Although the oil should have looked like a chocolate milkshake unless the engine was sitting for several weeks before he pulled the drain plug?
07-27-2018, 08:28 AM
#12
I have never in all my days seen a head gasket leak coolant and not fire, except when damaged during installation or the decks had chips out of them or something. There's just no way for one to seal combustion pressure but yet leak the low-pressure coolant.
Again, NOT saying "the bolts were tight" or anything like that; only, that loose head bolts DON'T pass the "Occam's Razor" test as the cause of this failure, given the rest of the facts. We all know the Razor: the simplest explanation that fits all the facts is most likely to be the right one. It would take an unbelievable combination of oddity and strange coincidence for loose head bolts to allow the gasket to leak coolant while sealing combustion; therefore it's not the most likely explanation for coolant in the oil. I'd be looking REAL HARD at the castings if they were mine; especially the heads, around the head bolts.
And yes, especially if the coolant was the green stuff, there's a good chance the bearings suffered, since that turns the oil into something that isn't oil anymore and doesn't lubricate. The orange kind isn't as bad but it's still not good.
Again, NOT saying "the bolts were tight" or anything like that; only, that loose head bolts DON'T pass the "Occam's Razor" test as the cause of this failure, given the rest of the facts. We all know the Razor: the simplest explanation that fits all the facts is most likely to be the right one. It would take an unbelievable combination of oddity and strange coincidence for loose head bolts to allow the gasket to leak coolant while sealing combustion; therefore it's not the most likely explanation for coolant in the oil. I'd be looking REAL HARD at the castings if they were mine; especially the heads, around the head bolts.
And yes, especially if the coolant was the green stuff, there's a good chance the bearings suffered, since that turns the oil into something that isn't oil anymore and doesn't lubricate. The orange kind isn't as bad but it's still not good.
07-27-2018, 03:15 PM
#13
Been a tech 20 years, seen many head gaskets do a lot of weird things that don't follow logic. Had a suburban in here few weeks back (5.3) that ran fine and acted fine but over night coolant would seep into the #1 cylinder and in the morning it would crank funky, it was half hydrolocked. It wasn't fully hydro locking, it had just enough water to make the starter struggle.
Found a loose head bolt around that cylinder.
Found a loose head bolt around that cylinder.
07-28-2018, 07:51 AM
#14
Been a tech 20 years, seen many head gaskets do a lot of weird things that don't follow logic. Had a suburban in here few weeks back (5.3) that ran fine and acted fine but over night coolant would seep into the #1 cylinder and in the morning it would crank funky, it was half hydrolocked. It wasn't fully hydro locking, it had just enough water to make the starter struggle.
Found a loose head bolt around that cylinder.
Found a loose head bolt around that cylinder.
That’s out of Probabaly 150 headgaskets I’ve put on in my life so it’s NOT common but a leaking head gasket is not ALWAYS a compression leak.
07-28-2018, 05:49 PM
#15
into the #1 cylinder
It wasn't leaking coolant and NOT leaking fire. You might not have noticed and/or diagnosed it as a compression leak in the moment, maybe only in retrospect, but it WAS.As far as diesels, I'm not familiar with their head gaskets. It may well be possible for those to experience a failure that leaks water but not fire. I can see how it would be unlikely, given that fire in a diesel is like 2200 psi or more; butt hay, if it's possible, it's possible.
Not in a LSx motor though... given the design, while potentially possibly remotely possibly possible, that would be SO REMOTELY UNLIKELY as to be close in probability to alien abduction and Elvis sightings. Readily dismissed as a potential "explanation". That would require some pretty extreme casting warpage or outright damage to teh gasket or the like.
And again: I am NOT saying that "the bolt wasn't loose", that "it isn't leaking coolant", that "the head gasket isn't bad", or ANYTHING OF THE KIND; only, that it is virtually impossible in a LSx motor for a bolt to be SO loose that 15 psi coolant leaks into the oil, but NOT so loose that 1500 psi compression stays put. And since neither the head nor the block shows signs of leaking fire, it's EXTREMELY unlikely that the bolt, however loose, might have leaked coolant into the oil, since the photographic evidence indicates that fire wasn't leaking. Ergo, coolant in the oil most likely came from someplace else.
And, looking more closely at that photo. What was going on with that #7 cylinder? Any idea? Looks like it was either getting oil or WAAAAAAAYYYY too much fuel.
Last edited by RB04Av; 07-28-2018 at 05:58 PM.