New bullet for AFR 215 R&D
01-19-2010, 04:57 PM
#41
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I gave steve the Garmin last night, I just hope it doesn't killed the battery in his rented Toyota Yaris. I Bet it is going to be like xmas eve when he was a kid at his hotel tonight. Sorry tony that makes you the fat guy in a red suit.
I told him he should of done a live feed via wifi of the dyno session. That would of been cool.
I told him he should of done a live feed via wifi of the dyno session. That would of been cool.
01-19-2010, 10:45 PM
#43
First off - enough with people posting "Subscribing". You aren't adding anything to the thread, and you are cluttering up a great read.
Dang Tony, just when I thought I had the LS / AFR family covered with the 205s in my C5 and 225s on my 408 build going in my '69 Nova - now you are coming out with yet another LS cathedral head. I guess now I'll have to add a 402 in my beater pickup?
Great build thread. I can't believe you got such tight ring seal without even running the engine. I look forward to the dyno results.
Dang Tony, just when I thought I had the LS / AFR family covered with the 205s in my C5 and 225s on my 408 build going in my '69 Nova - now you are coming out with yet another LS cathedral head. I guess now I'll have to add a 402 in my beater pickup?
Great build thread. I can't believe you got such tight ring seal without even running the engine. I look forward to the dyno results.
01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
#46
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01-20-2010, 11:42 PM
#49
Guys...
PM box is cleared but Im covered up for the next 36 hours so bear with me on a response.
Some teaser pic's for Allngn_C5......I mean Steve....keep forgetting who's motor this is
Shot of the partial shipping crate which I use the base (and the sides to better support the legs) for transporting duty.
And finally loaded up ready to hopefully put a hurting on the strain gauge of the dyno tomorrow. Nothing like knowing a bunch of other guys are watching....anticipating the results....waiting to see if your a hero or a zero.....LOL
Oh well....you only live once....plus its Steve's money!
Seeing as quite a few of you have an obvious interest in the results (and arent used to seeing numbers at the crank), on this exact same dyno I have tested three previous....what I would like to think were above average examples of Gen III engines.
The first, my original stock 346 with the 224/228 cam...a very optimized piece from the shortblock up which produced 475/435 at the wheel (all day long numbers....not best runs). That engine produced 552/475 at the crank on Westech's SF902 engine dyno. It had 11.4 to 1 CR
Next up would be my 383....less CR at 11.2....solid roller 242/248....and as most of you know a solid combination that made excellent power in my C5 chassis....avg #'s at the wheel were 535/490. That engine made 610/523 at the crank (pretty stout for a very drivable package of that displacement).
Last was an engine I built for a customer destined for a daily driver heavy GTO.....403 CID....11.4 CR....232/232, and once again a build I handled from top to bottom with attention to detail, good parts, and a set of my ported 205's. (And of course it goes without saying all of these engines had one of my ported FAST 90's on them....92mm in Steve's engine manana). This engine was a torque monster (which was the goal) and generated 593/555 at the crank....I don't remember the RWTQ but thru a stalled A4 I remember it made 490 RWHP which is pretty impressive IMO for a mild 403 that almost had a stock idle (and subsequently ran low/mid 11's at the track with his wife driving!)
This current build shares the most in common with the 403 just mentioned but has slightly more cam, a tenth higher CR (11.5) and the new 215 heads. Now I hate going in to any dyno test with big expectations but I would like to see more torque than Roy's GTO engine (555 ft/lbs) and more HP than my solid roller 383 build (610)....anything more than both of those figures is gravy if the rest of the power and torque curve is F-A-T.
Thats the hopes of tomorrows test session coming to you live from soggy southern CA....catch up with you guys soon I'm sure.
T-minus 13 hours....
PM box is cleared but Im covered up for the next 36 hours so bear with me on a response.
Some teaser pic's for Allngn_C5......I mean Steve....keep forgetting who's motor this is
Shot of the partial shipping crate which I use the base (and the sides to better support the legs) for transporting duty.
And finally loaded up ready to hopefully put a hurting on the strain gauge of the dyno tomorrow. Nothing like knowing a bunch of other guys are watching....anticipating the results....waiting to see if your a hero or a zero.....LOL
Oh well....you only live once....plus its Steve's money!
Seeing as quite a few of you have an obvious interest in the results (and arent used to seeing numbers at the crank), on this exact same dyno I have tested three previous....what I would like to think were above average examples of Gen III engines.
The first, my original stock 346 with the 224/228 cam...a very optimized piece from the shortblock up which produced 475/435 at the wheel (all day long numbers....not best runs). That engine produced 552/475 at the crank on Westech's SF902 engine dyno. It had 11.4 to 1 CR
Next up would be my 383....less CR at 11.2....solid roller 242/248....and as most of you know a solid combination that made excellent power in my C5 chassis....avg #'s at the wheel were 535/490. That engine made 610/523 at the crank (pretty stout for a very drivable package of that displacement).
Last was an engine I built for a customer destined for a daily driver heavy GTO.....403 CID....11.4 CR....232/232, and once again a build I handled from top to bottom with attention to detail, good parts, and a set of my ported 205's. (And of course it goes without saying all of these engines had one of my ported FAST 90's on them....92mm in Steve's engine manana). This engine was a torque monster (which was the goal) and generated 593/555 at the crank....I don't remember the RWTQ but thru a stalled A4 I remember it made 490 RWHP which is pretty impressive IMO for a mild 403 that almost had a stock idle (and subsequently ran low/mid 11's at the track with his wife driving!)
This current build shares the most in common with the 403 just mentioned but has slightly more cam, a tenth higher CR (11.5) and the new 215 heads. Now I hate going in to any dyno test with big expectations but I would like to see more torque than Roy's GTO engine (555 ft/lbs) and more HP than my solid roller 383 build (610)....anything more than both of those figures is gravy if the rest of the power and torque curve is F-A-T.
Thats the hopes of tomorrows test session coming to you live from soggy southern CA....catch up with you guys soon I'm sure.
T-minus 13 hours....
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 01-21-2010 at 07:41 AM.
01-21-2010, 07:55 AM
#51
BTW, Awesome potential for Engine Dyno numbers based on your examples. You are running more compression, larger cam and a slightly bigger bore with optimized AFR 215's. Based on your examples of motors spun @ Westech I am guessing 625-640 Fwhp and 570-585 Fwtq for Steves 407.
I could only hope the dyno's in the real world were as loose as you're predictions....more compression? (tenth of a ratio) and a larger cam (ten degrees)....not a huge difference once your already comparing a cam in the 230's (versus adding the same to a stock cam @ 205'). As camshafts get larger than low 230's or so @ .050, the gains from them get incremently smaller and its common to see peak torque fall off a little but simply extend further out at very high RPM. Big cams are not a free lunch
Your numbers would meet my highest optimistic hopes and dreams....once you've done enough testing in your life its best to approach this kind of thing with a middle of the road approach and the rest being gravy. Steve and I were looking for low 600's and a fat power curve....anything more is the gravy. Same argument with heads btw....the ported 205's kick azz (if comparing the 403 versus 407 dynoing today) and alot of the extra flow larger heads provide is muted and chopped off by the FAST intake which even ported is only so good.
Anyway....you don't need to quote this and reply.....just sit back and wait for the results which should be posted no later than this evening or tomorrow in an informative manner which will take some time.
Damn....Im tired....but psyched about the fact this day is finally here.
Catch you guys later
-Tony
01-21-2010, 11:49 AM
#53
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Alignc5 I understand you have the 215 trickflow was it ported and if so what were your flow numbers? Cause that is what I hate about trickflows website they don't post flow numbers.
01-21-2010, 02:10 PM
#54
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****Steves "the *****" heartbeat dyno update: 3:00 pm central time*** (his vette's nickname is "the *****")
Motor was broken in and now it is getting a oil change and cutting the oil filter open to be sure everything is fine. He took lots of pics and video.
Motor was broken in and now it is getting a oil change and cutting the oil filter open to be sure everything is fine. He took lots of pics and video.
01-21-2010, 03:23 PM
#56
I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but what does the rest of the powertrain look like that this motor is going in? I know it is a Vette, but I never heard any specifics like the type of header that will be used, exhaust, etc...hell, I'd be curious to know who it going to tune it once it is in.
01-21-2010, 03:42 PM
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Mike Norris of Norris Motorsports will do the tuning when it is installed. He just moved his shop from florida to indy this winter.
It has all the bells and whistles of perfomance mods, the car previously had a stroker with LS7 heads built by vette doctors. It was just a all up top powered motor, kinda lazy down low.
It has all the bells and whistles of perfomance mods, the car previously had a stroker with LS7 heads built by vette doctors. It was just a all up top powered motor, kinda lazy down low.
01-21-2010, 04:38 PM
#59
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215's Well I am looking into the 215's right now for my 402 build, Was looking at TFS 235's, but hope to see a little more down low with the AFR 215's, instead of going with a 225 or 235 head. Can't wait to see the #'s
What do you think Tony? 215's or your 225's?
Good luck
What do you think Tony? 215's or your 225's?
Good luck
01-21-2010, 04:42 PM
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It was built for high rpm power drag setup, so driving around town it just didn't have the grunt. He made the difference up in lower gears installed by RPM. He bought someone elses finished product and it didn't meet his style of driving it just had some really well done parts for the price. Steve came from a Nitrous powered terminator, so he was missing the massive low end torque and the flat continous power curve. Plus he is a very accomplished roadrace driver and expects a car to do what he wants when he wants it. The drive by wire was really screwing with his driving style for a little while. The previous combo could walk a 600hp cobra in a high gear roll, but from a 30-40 mph roll it just wasn't stump pulling. The whole car is going to be a whole new beast since it sat for a year and gave him time to redo the suspension. Riding shotgun with steve is more fun then a E ticket ride at disney.