ls1 starting build 500rwhp
01-24-2012, 06:59 PM
#21
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1st off, what exactly do you want to do with the car, and how heavy is it? If your looking for a weekend hotrod to sound bad *** rolling down the street and to enter in shows, then you can focus more on just the engine.....but if your running it at the track with good sticky tires and are trying to get good times I would start at the back of the car and work forward (rear end and rear suspension, then driveshaft and tranny, then lastly the engine). If you want to drive it more on the street you will also need it car to have decient manners which will limit your HP goal.
To get more HP you will want to spin the motor faster, so get great parts instead of ok parts, and you might even want to go with a sheetmetal intake and try dooming the engine up to and past 8,000 rpms to hit your goal.
To get more HP you will want to spin the motor faster, so get great parts instead of ok parts, and you might even want to go with a sheetmetal intake and try dooming the engine up to and past 8,000 rpms to hit your goal.
01-24-2012, 07:07 PM
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whats your budget ?you will need some really nice heads and a custom cam .get a fast 102mm intake and great exhaust system.read Patrick-G thread on making 500rwhp a couple of times to see if you really want to open that can of worms.it mite be easier to buy a TSP ls2 engine ,and get a custom cam.
iv seen alot of reviews where there wasnt that much diff in the ported ls6 intake and tb compared to the fast especially for the price diff it didnt seem worth the extra hp
01-24-2012, 07:13 PM
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whats your budget ?you will need some really nice heads and a custom cam .get a fast 102mm intake and great exhaust system.read Patrick-G thread on making 500rwhp a couple of times to see if you really want to open that can of worms.it mite be easier to buy a TSP ls2 engine ,and get a custom cam.
iv seen alot of reviews where there wasnt that much diff in the ported ls6 intake and tb compared to the fast especially for the price diff it didnt seem worth the extra hp
01-24-2012, 08:26 PM
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A $4000 budget and an LS6 intake will not get you anywhere near 500 rwhp. Period. Is this going in a truck? A 5.7 in a heavy car, or even heavier...a truck. You'll want to build for torque if you want to make a street rod...especially the more weight you're packing. High revving, high hp builds are for drag only vehicles, who have a suspension setup for drag racing and and properly dialed in. You won't enjoy those vehicles on the street. More of a pain in the *** that ends up being sold because it ends up being such a disappointment to drive. Sorry if I come off as a buzzkill...but I don't want to read about you wasting you're $$$.
01-24-2012, 08:56 PM
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500RWHP is not hard..... Built 3 car this summer that all came very close 496rwhp and 495rwhp.
air pump haha i bust out with that one. Because its so true. Heads that flow and have runner speed. then compresion most use north of 11.4.1 to get 500..... and a good spec cam that will work best with the heads you get. i would wait to get the cam till you get the heads you want and know the compresion you wnt to run. This is based on the fuel you have around you... 91 to 93..... also LS6 intake is not a bad intake at all but it limit is around 440 to 450 RWHP. so a fast 92 or 102 will be needed to keep up with the heads you get. also good lifter's morals or other wise are a must. spot on push rod's are a must to have proper perload arond 30thou with the moral. setting up rocker swipe on valve tip. using the lightest rocker...... light weight valves....... good 1and 7/8 headers and a really well made y merge to flow the exhaust as needed. it all really adds up. and so do the $$$$$$$$... 4,000 will not get you 500. it may if you do everything your self. even porting the fast....... its a lot of work..... good luck on your goals and dont cheap out anywhere with parts it will coast you the h/p....
air pump haha i bust out with that one. Because its so true. Heads that flow and have runner speed. then compresion most use north of 11.4.1 to get 500..... and a good spec cam that will work best with the heads you get. i would wait to get the cam till you get the heads you want and know the compresion you wnt to run. This is based on the fuel you have around you... 91 to 93..... also LS6 intake is not a bad intake at all but it limit is around 440 to 450 RWHP. so a fast 92 or 102 will be needed to keep up with the heads you get. also good lifter's morals or other wise are a must. spot on push rod's are a must to have proper perload arond 30thou with the moral. setting up rocker swipe on valve tip. using the lightest rocker...... light weight valves....... good 1and 7/8 headers and a really well made y merge to flow the exhaust as needed. it all really adds up. and so do the $$$$$$$$... 4,000 will not get you 500. it may if you do everything your self. even porting the fast....... its a lot of work..... good luck on your goals and dont cheap out anywhere with parts it will coast you the h/p....
01-25-2012, 02:22 AM
#28
Agreed. 346ci + $4,000 budget < 500rwhp NA
The difference is in the details, and the whole reason Patrick G went through the effort to document everything that goes into a 500rwhp NA build is because so many people choose to cut corners, then ask later why they can't put over 450 or 460 to the rollers. If you read the link to the 500rwhp recipe suggested on page one, post # 2, then you know already some serious (a.k.a. expensive) hardware is required.
Example 1: Can you get there with ported 243 heads? Yes, but paying for the few guys that can actually get that result is not cheap.
Example 2: Can you get there without an electric water pump? Yes, but you have to find another 8 to 12 hp somewhere else in the combo - better headers, better exhaust design, better flowing intake/heads....still not cheap.
Example 3: Can you get there with budget parts? Not at 346ci, but what does it cost to add cubic inches in order to pump more air?
If you must hit 500rwhp, with a $4,000 budget, nitrous is your friend. Otherwise, more displacement will make it easier to hit your mark, and probably perform better in a heavy truck to boot.
Good luck!
The difference is in the details, and the whole reason Patrick G went through the effort to document everything that goes into a 500rwhp NA build is because so many people choose to cut corners, then ask later why they can't put over 450 or 460 to the rollers. If you read the link to the 500rwhp recipe suggested on page one, post # 2, then you know already some serious (a.k.a. expensive) hardware is required.
Example 1: Can you get there with ported 243 heads? Yes, but paying for the few guys that can actually get that result is not cheap.
Example 2: Can you get there without an electric water pump? Yes, but you have to find another 8 to 12 hp somewhere else in the combo - better headers, better exhaust design, better flowing intake/heads....still not cheap.
Example 3: Can you get there with budget parts? Not at 346ci, but what does it cost to add cubic inches in order to pump more air?
If you must hit 500rwhp, with a $4,000 budget, nitrous is your friend. Otherwise, more displacement will make it easier to hit your mark, and probably perform better in a heavy truck to boot.
Good luck!
Last edited by hammertime; 01-25-2012 at 02:31 AM. Reason: added links
01-25-2012, 08:28 AM
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Agreed. 346ci + $4,000 budget < 500rwhp NA
The difference is in the details, and the whole reason Patrick G went through the effort to document everything that goes into a 500rwhp NA build is because so many people choose to cut corners, then ask later why they can't put over 450 or 460 to the rollers. If you read the link to the 500rwhp recipe suggested on page one, post # 2, then you know already some serious (a.k.a. expensive) hardware is required.
Example 1: Can you get there with ported 243 heads? Yes, but paying for the few guys that can actually get that result is not cheap.
Example 2: Can you get there without an electric water pump? Yes, but you have to find another 8 to 12 hp somewhere else in the combo - better headers, better exhaust design, better flowing intake/heads....still not cheap.
Example 3: Can you get there with budget parts? Not at 346ci, but what does it cost to add cubic inches in order to pump more air?
If you must hit 500rwhp, with a $4,000 budget, nitrous is your friend. Otherwise, more displacement will make it easier to hit your mark, and probably perform better in a heavy truck to boot.
Good luck!
The difference is in the details, and the whole reason Patrick G went through the effort to document everything that goes into a 500rwhp NA build is because so many people choose to cut corners, then ask later why they can't put over 450 or 460 to the rollers. If you read the link to the 500rwhp recipe suggested on page one, post # 2, then you know already some serious (a.k.a. expensive) hardware is required.
Example 1: Can you get there with ported 243 heads? Yes, but paying for the few guys that can actually get that result is not cheap.
Example 2: Can you get there without an electric water pump? Yes, but you have to find another 8 to 12 hp somewhere else in the combo - better headers, better exhaust design, better flowing intake/heads....still not cheap.
Example 3: Can you get there with budget parts? Not at 346ci, but what does it cost to add cubic inches in order to pump more air?
If you must hit 500rwhp, with a $4,000 budget, nitrous is your friend. Otherwise, more displacement will make it easier to hit your mark, and probably perform better in a heavy truck to boot.
Good luck!
1. 243 heads from tea stage 2 you can get for under 2k use stock rockers and my buddys car with only 11.5.1 comp made 495 rwhp. you can get 243's done now for a good price.... oh and that was done with a stock fbody water pump
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...m-numbers.htmlThis setup was done on the cheap but still cost alot of money...... and this is like pat's car.... a street driven T/A
Last edited by 98blueSScamaro; 01-25-2012 at 08:47 AM.
01-25-2012, 05:30 PM
#30
i know there are several more mods im gonna have to do i was just wanting to start with the motor and go back as of right now its not gonna be a track car im just wanting a bad *** street rod haha. i was looking into a FAST set up but it was just alot of money and a ported ls6 intake seemed better for the after all the looking up i did and im kinda on a budget right now..iv got a 70 chevy im redoing another 4x4 pickup im working on
About the 500rwhp, it must be very nice to have, but it comes at a price my friend, yes its always about money(and a bit of knowledge!).
If you cant aford a FAST, you surely cannot aford a port-matched FAST to your heads!! and this is only 1 part of the puzzle; $$$ headers, clutch, rearend, heads!!, tune, injectors, lifters bla bla bla..
Try to get the most out of your $$$ to enjoy the car while you collect enough dough for your final project. I'm really happy I did so I had a blast with my car since 5+years with 400rwhp and some nitrous
01-25-2012, 05:34 PM
#31
around 4000$ is my spending limit right now. aint done much to it yet just alot of looking up im got a k&n cold air intake on it and flowmasters...iv got alot of exteror motor parts in mind. lets say i went with the afr heads FAST set up and a mild cam what kind of power am i looking at.
iv seen alot of reviews where there wasnt that much diff in the ported ls6 intake and tb compared to the fast especially for the price diff it didnt seem worth the extra hp
iv seen alot of reviews where there wasnt that much diff in the ported ls6 intake and tb compared to the fast especially for the price diff it didnt seem worth the extra hp
But I say spend $$$ on your heads before a FAST.
01-25-2012, 05:46 PM
#32
I would not mess with the maf at all, that is always risky imo I am still running my stock maf
1.) Texas Speed 1 7/8's LT's or ARH Headers
2.) MS3 Cam is my favorite, but people on here will tell you different 4 or 5 of the top 10 fastest cars run it.
3.) Fast 102/102
4.) AFR 225's
5.) walbro 340lph
6.) 60lb injectors
7.) Super Sucker Ram Air Intake w SLP Lid and bellow
1.) Texas Speed 1 7/8's LT's or ARH Headers
2.) MS3 Cam is my favorite, but people on here will tell you different 4 or 5 of the top 10 fastest cars run it.
3.) Fast 102/102
4.) AFR 225's
5.) walbro 340lph
6.) 60lb injectors
7.) Super Sucker Ram Air Intake w SLP Lid and bellow
Last edited by 99Ls1fever; 01-25-2012 at 06:36 PM.
01-25-2012, 06:30 PM
#33
As far ad engine mods I'd do exhaust and headers first, then cam, then intake, then heads....step by step if as you have/ build up money.
Your cam will perform better with heads and intake, but they are not absolutely needed, plus a cam swap by itself is pretty involved where later down the road if you get an intake and tb they van be easily swapped in a few hours.
When you do yours heads you will probably want to get lifters and lifters trays.
Your cam will perform better with heads and intake, but they are not absolutely needed, plus a cam swap by itself is pretty involved where later down the road if you get an intake and tb they van be easily swapped in a few hours.
When you do yours heads you will probably want to get lifters and lifters trays.
01-25-2012, 10:00 PM
#34
Not true to 1. and 2.
1. 243 heads from tea stage 2 you can get for under 2k use stock rockers and my buddys car with only 11.5.1 comp made 495 rwhp. you can get 243's done now for a good price.... oh and that was done with a stock fbody water pump https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...m-numbers.html
This setup was done on the cheap but still cost alot of money...... and this is like pat's car.... a street driven T/A
1. 243 heads from tea stage 2 you can get for under 2k use stock rockers and my buddys car with only 11.5.1 comp made 495 rwhp. you can get 243's done now for a good price.... oh and that was done with a stock fbody water pump
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...m-numbers.htmlThis setup was done on the cheap but still cost alot of money...... and this is like pat's car.... a street driven T/A
You did say it still cost a lot, and $1900 for ported ported stock castings is approaching the cost of aftermarket heads. Unless you guys pulled off some extreme bargain hunting, I'd venture a guess that the total of the parts list from the post you linked overshoots the $4000 figure the OP has given by a fair amount.
Gotta give credit where its due though, great numbers and no doubt a blast to drive on the street!
01-26-2012, 08:19 AM
#36
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Honestly if you are on a budget dont waste your time/money/effort/heartache trying to build a max effort stock motor. It takes alot of playing with. I came close previously and wasted 2 cylinders trying to rev it to the moon.
If your goal is 500 whp just spend the money you were going to spend on a ported FAST and crazy cam/springs/heads and a few times to the tuner on a used blower/turbo kit and dont disappoint yourself.
It is money far better spent. the 3k+ investment on a set of heads to do the trick is far better spent on boost. Smoother power, better driveability, way more tq under the curve than you would ever get on a h/c 346, all in all less ******* with it in the long run.
Also if you ever wanted to go bigger you have a good baseline to start with. You will be glad you spent the 3k on boost rather than a set of heads you probably wont use on a bigger motor anyway.
If your goal is 500 whp just spend the money you were going to spend on a ported FAST and crazy cam/springs/heads and a few times to the tuner on a used blower/turbo kit and dont disappoint yourself.
It is money far better spent. the 3k+ investment on a set of heads to do the trick is far better spent on boost. Smoother power, better driveability, way more tq under the curve than you would ever get on a h/c 346, all in all less ******* with it in the long run.
Also if you ever wanted to go bigger you have a good baseline to start with. You will be glad you spent the 3k on boost rather than a set of heads you probably wont use on a bigger motor anyway.
