Rebuilt LS1 Oil break-in Procedures?
03-28-2012, 11:50 AM
#21
My engine had maybe 400 miles on it and it was toast......the cylinders were being "gas washed" the entire time, which means the rings cannot seat properly. When I checked my oil there was not a drop on the dipstick.
2 1/2 qrts low at least, maybe more. I was pissed. Engine had to immediately come out for a rebuild.
Ring Break-in and tuning is EVERYTHING. But without a proper tune, an engine cannot be broken-in (and I mean breaking-in the rings....not engine cleaning from shedding.)
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03-29-2012, 10:15 AM
#22
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Next question i have is there any idea why the engine builder would recommend me to put water for the first 500 miles what my car takes which dexcool ? this really threw me off when he said that , but Im not an engine builder so i wouldn't know thanks for the help guys really appreciate it
03-29-2012, 10:19 AM
#23
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The only thing that comes to mind is that he wants me to over heat my engine and void my warrant in doing so since that's not covered under his warranty
03-29-2012, 10:32 AM
#24
water cools better than anti freeze
so he probably wants to guarantee that it doesnt overheat on initial break in as that will be the time when you have more friction and more heat.
anti freeze is just for that...the glycol keeps the water from freezing until a much lower temperature...
it also has benefits of helping keep it from boiling till a higher temperature as well...but our closed cooling system is pressurized...which means water doesnt boil at 212 like it does in open air...so the glycol really isnt necessary to help with that end of the spectrum...
our cooling system is around 15psi typically... which means the water boiling point is around 250*F give or take depending on elevation and real system pressures
the downside of using just water, is that if you do get to that 250*, you will turn the water to vapor, and it will leak out of the weakest points possible...reducing the pressures, making more vapor form, causing more pressure....its a vicious cycle...which is what causes head gasket leaks and other cooling gasket leaks
our system being pressurized is also the reason why you should never open the radiator cap while hot....not only do you get a pressurized push of hot liquid, but you also get a sudden burst of hot vapor from a flash boil from the sudden pressure drop...
so he probably wants to guarantee that it doesnt overheat on initial break in as that will be the time when you have more friction and more heat.
anti freeze is just for that...the glycol keeps the water from freezing until a much lower temperature...
it also has benefits of helping keep it from boiling till a higher temperature as well...but our closed cooling system is pressurized...which means water doesnt boil at 212 like it does in open air...so the glycol really isnt necessary to help with that end of the spectrum...
our cooling system is around 15psi typically... which means the water boiling point is around 250*F give or take depending on elevation and real system pressures
the downside of using just water, is that if you do get to that 250*, you will turn the water to vapor, and it will leak out of the weakest points possible...reducing the pressures, making more vapor form, causing more pressure....its a vicious cycle...which is what causes head gasket leaks and other cooling gasket leaks
our system being pressurized is also the reason why you should never open the radiator cap while hot....not only do you get a pressurized push of hot liquid, but you also get a sudden burst of hot vapor from a flash boil from the sudden pressure drop...
03-29-2012, 10:37 AM
#25
When my engine was 100% stock......every time I did an oil change I warmed the engine up to operating temp, then dumped the oil so I could get allot more of the old oil out.
I would also put the car in my driveway so the drivers side front of the car is the lowest point....again, so I will get most of the oil out. I let it drip for an hour until no more oil is dripping out at all.
When I would put the new oil in I would use those 5 empty quart jugs to pour the old oil into. I would always fill up almost 5 quart jugs to the top with old oil (I'd say 4 3/4 qrts of old oil). Thats amazing after 3,000 miles of driving, considering there's still a little bit of oil remaining in the engine, maybe 1/4 - 1/2 qrt.
So it burned about 1/2 qrt in 3,000 miles.
Regardless of what GM says.......I was very happy burning only 1/2 qrt in 3,000 miles.
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I would also put the car in my driveway so the drivers side front of the car is the lowest point....again, so I will get most of the oil out. I let it drip for an hour until no more oil is dripping out at all.
When I would put the new oil in I would use those 5 empty quart jugs to pour the old oil into. I would always fill up almost 5 quart jugs to the top with old oil (I'd say 4 3/4 qrts of old oil). Thats amazing after 3,000 miles of driving, considering there's still a little bit of oil remaining in the engine, maybe 1/4 - 1/2 qrt.
So it burned about 1/2 qrt in 3,000 miles.
Regardless of what GM says.......I was very happy burning only 1/2 qrt in 3,000 miles.
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Lot of good info from REAL experiences in this thread though. My 347 shortblock is being put in as we speak. Only going to get a ride home break in and straight to the dyno. I'm new to ls1's though and I am skepticle about one thing. I have bigger injectors and a a 340lph because the car has a cam now with the old wet kit on it. Planned to get tuned for a 150 kit on the dyno. Any way on the drive home from the car being finished before the dyno my wideband could lie to me in anyway. Had it happen in a fox body before.
03-29-2012, 10:46 AM
#26
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Ok makes sense i was just nervous today when i decided to open up the radiator cap and check the coolant and it was empty and so was my reservoir or maybe the guy didn't fill it up ran it then fill it up again which is usually what i do when i flush my radiator but i think he forgot since he was probably in a hurry to give me my car back since he told me 7 days and ended up being a month
03-29-2012, 11:29 AM
#29
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Haven't checked that but will do so in about 30 minutes if its completely empty what could it mean i mean oil isn't chocolatly and no extra smoke out of the normal just early in the morning
03-29-2012, 04:46 PM
#31
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I think he didn't burp it cuz it was just missing about half a gallon in the radiator and reservoir last question what weight should i use right now while Im putting conventional oil ? once i switch over to synthetic im gonna put 0w-30 carol syntec German formula because i read that its amazing oil especially for ls1's
03-29-2012, 08:28 PM
#32
I think he didn't burp it cuz it was just missing about half a gallon in the radiator and reservoir last question what weight should i use right now while Im putting conventional oil ? once i switch over to synthetic im gonna put 0w-30 carol syntec German formula because i read that its amazing oil especially for ls1's
03-30-2012, 05:23 PM
#34
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So i changed the oil and it seemed normal to what my friends saw that have built engines before just that the engine builder put really cheap oil but luckily i put valvoline in there and I'll change it at 500 my new question is i took my car up to 4800 rpms and it ran beautiful but could i have messed something in taking it up to 4800 rpms ?
04-01-2012, 12:55 AM
#35
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You are taking this break-in thing WAY to serious. There's two things a new engine needs:
1) The RINGS......MUST be broken in immediately, as in the first 2-3 miles. It has to see 3-4 hard runs/dyno pulls right out of the gate. The 4th-5th run being 100% WOT.
Thats all that gets broken-in....the RINGS.
2) The engine needs to be kept as clean as possible for the first 1,000 miles....which means a simple oil change (NO FRIGGIN ADDITIVES IN THE DAMN OIL) for the millionth time.
Just put NON-synthetic cheap *** oil in there and run it: Do oil changes at 50, 100, 150, 300, 500 and 1,000 miles. New engines shed tiny metal particles, you're just keeping that to a minimum when the engine is new when it sheds ALLOT........the engine will shed for its entire life though. But those frequent changes will keep that massive amount of "new engine" shedding to a minimum so you don't hammer your internal bearings to death.
I have no idea what your builder has said.....but that is what you need to do to your engine. And AGAIN....DO NOT put additives in your oil....EVER...period.
And if you want to....your choice......just use non-synthetic oil for the life of the engine. Synthetic oil will do NOTHING AT ALL for your engine that non-synthetic oil won't do. I've used cheap ***, off the shelf Castrol GTX 20w50 and my 427ci is humming right along still at 165,000 miles........people put too much into oil...its a joke.
These engines are absolutely NOTHING special....they are friggin Chevy V8's. They are nowhere near close to special or exotic.
When you have a purpose built engine made with special tolerances then you can consider using special oils.
This is how an engine is supposed to be broken in....btw....
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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1) The RINGS......MUST be broken in immediately, as in the first 2-3 miles. It has to see 3-4 hard runs/dyno pulls right out of the gate. The 4th-5th run being 100% WOT.
Thats all that gets broken-in....the RINGS.
2) The engine needs to be kept as clean as possible for the first 1,000 miles....which means a simple oil change (NO FRIGGIN ADDITIVES IN THE DAMN OIL) for the millionth time.
Just put NON-synthetic cheap *** oil in there and run it: Do oil changes at 50, 100, 150, 300, 500 and 1,000 miles. New engines shed tiny metal particles, you're just keeping that to a minimum when the engine is new when it sheds ALLOT........the engine will shed for its entire life though. But those frequent changes will keep that massive amount of "new engine" shedding to a minimum so you don't hammer your internal bearings to death.
I have no idea what your builder has said.....but that is what you need to do to your engine. And AGAIN....DO NOT put additives in your oil....EVER...period.
And if you want to....your choice......just use non-synthetic oil for the life of the engine. Synthetic oil will do NOTHING AT ALL for your engine that non-synthetic oil won't do. I've used cheap ***, off the shelf Castrol GTX 20w50 and my 427ci is humming right along still at 165,000 miles........people put too much into oil...its a joke.
These engines are absolutely NOTHING special....they are friggin Chevy V8's. They are nowhere near close to special or exotic.
When you have a purpose built engine made with special tolerances then you can consider using special oils.
This is how an engine is supposed to be broken in....btw....
http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
.
04-01-2012, 08:23 AM
#36
I disagree with you personally about synthetics not being any better. I do agree it is beneficial to keep microparticle circulation to a minimum, but I do think synthetic oil is superior and beneficial. Synthetic oil is more slippery, meaning less friction. Less friction means less wear. Less wear = happy engines. Some people may offset that by holding on to their more expensive oil for too long like it is precious gold but when you get real about the cost being affordable lower friction inside the engines metal parts is a good thing.
but it is bad for break in....
If the wrong type of oil is used initially, or the break-in is too easy, rings and cylinders could and will glaze and never seal properly. A fresh cylinder wall needs some medium to high engine loading to get the piston rings to seat properly for good compression but make sure you don't lug or overheat the engine. Use high quality, low viscosity oil, no synthetics, too slippery. If synthetics are used during initial break in the rings are sure to glaze over.
When a cylinder is new or overhauled the surface of it's walls are honed with abrasive stones to produce a rough surface that will help wear the piston rings in. This roughing up of the surface is known as "cross-hatching". A cylinder wall that has been properly "cross hatched" has a series of minute peaks and valleys cut into its surface. The face or portion of the piston ring that interfaces with the cross hatched cylinder wall is tapered to allow only a small portion of the ring to contact the honed cylinder wall. When the engine is operated, the tapered portion of the face of the piston ring rubs against the coarse surface of the cylinder wall causing wear on both objects.
Each tiny groove acts as the oil reservoir holding oil up to the top level of the groove where it then spreads over the peak surface. The piston ring must travel up and down over this grooved surface, and must "hydroplane" on the oil film retained by the grooves. Otherwise, the ring would make metal-to-metal contact with the cylinder wall and the cylinder would quickly wear out.
However the ring will only ride on this film of oil if there is sufficient surface area to support the ring on the oil. When the cylinders are freshly honed the peaks are sharp with little surface area. Our goal when seating the rings on new steel cylinders is to flatten out these peaks to give more surface area to support the rings, while leaving the bottom of the groove intact to hold enough oil to keep the surface of the cylinder wet with oil. At the point where the top of the peaks produced by the honing operation become smooth and the tapered portion of the piston ring wears flat break in has occurred.
when synthetics are used, they keep this process from happening because of how "Slippery" they are...not enough friction for proper break in and seating of the rings.
08-06-2012, 09:49 AM
#37
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For those of you not wanting to switch to synthetic for financial reasons, maybe you should reconsider. Since synthetic can better lubricate (or more "slippery") it allows everything to spin with less resistance (less friction). It seems like everyone agrees on that. Now I understand that after 3000 miles there ARE going to be particles circulating in the engine that you would want out of there, but there is no law set in stone that says if you have synthetic you have to change your oil at 5000+ miles, you can change it at 3000 just like you would with regular oil.
Now here's where it makes financial sense, lets say switching to synthetic gets you 1 MPG over regular oil. Your regular oil is getting you 23 MPG and synthetic is getting you 24 MPG (hypothetically). To cover the 3000 miles using regular oil you will have to use 130.4 gallons of fuel vs 125 gallons for synthetic. At $3.50 for a gallon of gas you save almost $19 bucks, Now I don't know about you guys but in your area does even AMSoil or Royal Purple synthetics (considered the best I guess) cost more than regular Castrol or Mobil?
Now here's where it makes financial sense, lets say switching to synthetic gets you 1 MPG over regular oil. Your regular oil is getting you 23 MPG and synthetic is getting you 24 MPG (hypothetically). To cover the 3000 miles using regular oil you will have to use 130.4 gallons of fuel vs 125 gallons for synthetic. At $3.50 for a gallon of gas you save almost $19 bucks, Now I don't know about you guys but in your area does even AMSoil or Royal Purple synthetics (considered the best I guess) cost more than regular Castrol or Mobil?
10-18-2016, 06:31 PM
#38
Depending on the rotating assembly and induction method you can burn more or less oil. For example a forged stroker motor with or without a turbo will burn more oil than a stock ls1.
