LS6 build Questions / Advice
05-03-2012, 08:22 AM
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LS6 build Questions / Advice Hi Guys,
This only my second post on LS1Tech for please be gentle
I have a 69 Camaro fitted with an 03 LS6 ( Chev crate motor with 1500 miles ) that was installed when I bought the car. I'm currently rebuilding the entire car as some of the work completed by the previous owner was a little shady and I was not happy with the quality of the workmanship.
My end goal is to build / buy and fit an 416 LS short block, However as I am outlaying a heap of dollars on the rebuild I am freshening the LS6 with plans to use the new components on the 416 down the track!!
So far I have the following upgrades and was looking for thoughts and comments regarding the combination, should be remembered that the end goal is a larger cube LS. I know I am going to loose some low end torque / power with the heads, but I didn't want buy another set of heads down the track.
AFR 230 Mongoose V2 65cc small bore with upgraded springs - p/n 1660 ( Probably too much head for a 346ci!)
Comp cams XER281HR cam 232 / 234 - 0.595 / 0.598 - 112 ( would upgrade for the bigger cube short block )
YellaTerra YT6645 roller rockers - 1.7
Comp cams lifters
SLP Performance LS1 Ported Oil Pump
FAST LSXR 102mm Manifold ls1/ls6 PORTED
Nick Williams 102mm
FAST LSXR Billet fuel Rails
FIC Fuel Injectors to 42lb/hr
After doing some more research am a little concerned that I am going to have valve to piston clearance issue with the 2.080" intake valves and 0.595 lift, does anyone know if this will be the case?
Also I know this is a loaded question, but what sort of performance do you think I will get out of this combo??
Cheers,
Lyndsay
This only my second post on LS1Tech for please be gentle
I have a 69 Camaro fitted with an 03 LS6 ( Chev crate motor with 1500 miles ) that was installed when I bought the car. I'm currently rebuilding the entire car as some of the work completed by the previous owner was a little shady and I was not happy with the quality of the workmanship.
My end goal is to build / buy and fit an 416 LS short block, However as I am outlaying a heap of dollars on the rebuild I am freshening the LS6 with plans to use the new components on the 416 down the track!!
So far I have the following upgrades and was looking for thoughts and comments regarding the combination, should be remembered that the end goal is a larger cube LS. I know I am going to loose some low end torque / power with the heads, but I didn't want buy another set of heads down the track.
AFR 230 Mongoose V2 65cc small bore with upgraded springs - p/n 1660 ( Probably too much head for a 346ci!)
Comp cams XER281HR cam 232 / 234 - 0.595 / 0.598 - 112 ( would upgrade for the bigger cube short block )
YellaTerra YT6645 roller rockers - 1.7
Comp cams lifters
SLP Performance LS1 Ported Oil Pump
FAST LSXR 102mm Manifold ls1/ls6 PORTED
Nick Williams 102mm
FAST LSXR Billet fuel Rails
FIC Fuel Injectors to 42lb/hr
After doing some more research am a little concerned that I am going to have valve to piston clearance issue with the 2.080" intake valves and 0.595 lift, does anyone know if this will be the case?
Also I know this is a loaded question, but what sort of performance do you think I will get out of this combo??
Cheers,
Lyndsay
Last edited by westoz; 05-03-2012 at 08:31 AM.
05-03-2012, 09:22 AM
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Thanks Tainted. When yuou say change cams, do you mean with the current 346ci combination or down the track with the 416ci. Any suggestions on a better suited cam with the 346ci combo?
05-03-2012, 11:23 AM
#4
TECH Senior Member
Call Tony Mamo at AFR, he knows those heads best andhe is always very helpful.
Regarding PTV, please understand that .095 lift happens at or close to BDC, so contact is imposible there and .050 lifts has almost nothing to do with contact. Basicaly lift is not what dictates PTV clearance. Piston to valve contact is usualy measured from 10* BTDC to 10* ATDC (which is far away from BDC where max lift occurs)
Many poeple confuse that with tappet lift.
Regarding PTV, please understand that .095 lift happens at or close to BDC, so contact is imposible there and .050 lifts has almost nothing to do with contact. Basicaly lift is not what dictates PTV clearance. Piston to valve contact is usualy measured from 10* BTDC to 10* ATDC (which is far away from BDC where max lift occurs)
Many poeple confuse that with tappet lift.
Last edited by PREDATOR-Z; 05-03-2012 at 11:30 AM.
05-03-2012, 12:19 PM
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Call Tony Mamo at AFR, he knows those heads best andhe is always very helpful.
Regarding PTV, please understand that .095 lift happens at or close to BDC, so contact is imposible there and .050 lifts has almost nothing to do with contact. Basicaly lift is not what dictates PTV clearance. Piston to valve contact is usualy measured from 10* BTDC to 10* ATDC (which is far away from BDC where max lift occurs)
Many poeple confuse that with tappet lift.
Regarding PTV, please understand that .095 lift happens at or close to BDC, so contact is imposible there and .050 lifts has almost nothing to do with contact. Basicaly lift is not what dictates PTV clearance. Piston to valve contact is usualy measured from 10* BTDC to 10* ATDC (which is far away from BDC where max lift occurs)
Many poeple confuse that with tappet lift.
05-03-2012, 02:09 PM
#7
If your serious about pulling this off you should just let me spec and supply the entire combination for you....it would help you avoid a handful of potential pitfalls IMO.
Basically I would provide you with all the parts I know will work and compliment one another (aka the "recipe").....you just need to do the install properly or pay someone to install it properly and your almost guaranteed above average results.
That cam/combo you previously mentioned without fly cutting pistons and getting the compression and DCR up a bunch is going to be weak on the smaller engine.
Also, you could consider having me rework a set of 215's for you.....that head would flow enough air to work on the large displacement combo in your future (600+ at the crank easily) and really work well on the smaller engine also being more responsive and able to put up a pretty stout number as well. Not to mention I see so many of these "start small and go big down the road" scenarios stay small for an indefinite amount of time. It would be nice to better optimize the first combo because you may live with it alot longer than you think.....especially if your pleased with the results.
Now while I think the 215 is a better head to split the middle so to speak, with the right cam (smaller than your thinking), the 230 could work as well. We can discuss that more but most of what would dictate my direction is how you plan on using the engine.
Anyway....shoot me a PM or a phone call and we can continue the dialogue that way if your up for investigating more options.
Thanks,
Tony
661-705-8508
Basically I would provide you with all the parts I know will work and compliment one another (aka the "recipe").....you just need to do the install properly or pay someone to install it properly and your almost guaranteed above average results.
That cam/combo you previously mentioned without fly cutting pistons and getting the compression and DCR up a bunch is going to be weak on the smaller engine.
Also, you could consider having me rework a set of 215's for you.....that head would flow enough air to work on the large displacement combo in your future (600+ at the crank easily) and really work well on the smaller engine also being more responsive and able to put up a pretty stout number as well. Not to mention I see so many of these "start small and go big down the road" scenarios stay small for an indefinite amount of time. It would be nice to better optimize the first combo because you may live with it alot longer than you think.....especially if your pleased with the results.
Now while I think the 215 is a better head to split the middle so to speak, with the right cam (smaller than your thinking), the 230 could work as well. We can discuss that more but most of what would dictate my direction is how you plan on using the engine.
Anyway....shoot me a PM or a phone call and we can continue the dialogue that way if your up for investigating more options.
Thanks,
Tony
661-705-8508
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05-03-2012, 02:35 PM
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Tony's your man... he's literally a "one stop shop" and his customer service is downright awesome.
I went with the 215's on my stock bottom end ls1... Knowing that I already have a great flowing head in case I want to go stroker motor in the future is a major bonus!
I went with the 215's on my stock bottom end ls1... Knowing that I already have a great flowing head in case I want to go stroker motor in the future is a major bonus!
05-03-2012, 02:47 PM
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If your serious about pulling this off you should just let me spec and supply the entire combination for you....it would help you avoid a handful of potential pitfalls IMO.
Basically I would provide you with all the parts I know will work and compliment one another (aka the "recipe").....you just need to do the install properly or pay someone to install it properly and your almost guaranteed above average results.
That cam/combo you previously mentioned without fly cutting pistons and getting the compression and DCR up a bunch is going to be weak on the smaller engine.
Also, you could consider having me rework a set of 215's for you.....that head would flow enough air to work on the large displacement combo in your future (600+ at the crank easily) and really work well on the smaller engine also being more responsive and able to put up a pretty stout number as well. Not to mention I see so many of these "start small and go big down the road" scenarios stay small for an indefinite amount of time. It would be nice to better optimize the first combo because you may live with it alot longer than you think.....especially if your pleased with the results.
Now while I think the 215 is a better head to split the middle so to speak, with the right cam (smaller than your thinking), the 230 could work as well. We can discuss that more but most of what would dictate my direction is how you plan on using the engine.
Anyway....shoot me a PM or a phone call and we can continue the dialogue that way if your up for investigating more options.
Thanks,
Tony
661-705-8508
Basically I would provide you with all the parts I know will work and compliment one another (aka the "recipe").....you just need to do the install properly or pay someone to install it properly and your almost guaranteed above average results.
That cam/combo you previously mentioned without fly cutting pistons and getting the compression and DCR up a bunch is going to be weak on the smaller engine.
Also, you could consider having me rework a set of 215's for you.....that head would flow enough air to work on the large displacement combo in your future (600+ at the crank easily) and really work well on the smaller engine also being more responsive and able to put up a pretty stout number as well. Not to mention I see so many of these "start small and go big down the road" scenarios stay small for an indefinite amount of time. It would be nice to better optimize the first combo because you may live with it alot longer than you think.....especially if your pleased with the results.
Now while I think the 215 is a better head to split the middle so to speak, with the right cam (smaller than your thinking), the 230 could work as well. We can discuss that more but most of what would dictate my direction is how you plan on using the engine.
Anyway....shoot me a PM or a phone call and we can continue the dialogue that way if your up for investigating more options.
Thanks,
Tony
661-705-8508
05-03-2012, 02:53 PM
#11
Can't go wrong with Tony! He is one of those few and far between guys that makes you enjoy the whole experience and can make more power with more streetable manners... I can't wait to have the money to buy a set of his heads 
05-03-2012, 04:12 PM
#13
I'm working on it!! (Tired of hearing Vader complain about how slow the Death Star is with the stock engine in it!)
I actually have been burning the midnight oil on my 454 project and should be back on the dyno the end of May or beginning of June to test the latest round of "experiments"!
OP....it was good speaking with you. Glad to have helped you in selecting the right compression ratio and a more appropriate camshaft for your current situation.
Catch you guys later!
-Tony
05-04-2012, 01:55 AM
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Nice....LOL
I'm working on it!! (Tired of hearing Vader complain about how slow the Death Star is with the stock engine in it!)
I actually have been burning the midnight oil on my 454 project and should be back on the dyno the end of May or beginning of June to test the latest round of "experiments"!
OP....it was good speaking with you. Glad to have helped you in selecting the right compression ratio and a more appropriate camshaft for your current situation.
Catch you guys later!
-Tony
I'm working on it!! (Tired of hearing Vader complain about how slow the Death Star is with the stock engine in it!)
I actually have been burning the midnight oil on my 454 project and should be back on the dyno the end of May or beginning of June to test the latest round of "experiments"!
OP....it was good speaking with you. Glad to have helped you in selecting the right compression ratio and a more appropriate camshaft for your current situation.
Catch you guys later!
-Tony
Will definetly hit you up to massage the heads and sort out the correct " recipe" when I build the 416ci
05-05-2012, 03:36 AM
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Tony's your man... he's literally a "one stop shop" and his customer service is downright awesome.
I went with the 215's on my stock bottom end ls1... Knowing that I already have a great flowing head in case I want to go stroker motor in the future is a major bonus!
I went with the 215's on my stock bottom end ls1... Knowing that I already have a great flowing head in case I want to go stroker motor in the future is a major bonus!
Cheers, Lyndsay
05-05-2012, 04:13 PM
#16
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...stly-done.html
He picked up a bunch of power in spite of me selecting a smaller cam than the cam he was running in his baseline "before" numbers. I did that because he was looking for the new set-up to have alot more punch on the bottom and better drivability etc. The fact we made a heap more peak power as well (with all the optimized components) just made the deal even sweeter and thats of course what we were hoping/looking for.
-Tony
05-08-2012, 08:06 AM
#19
I know you really don't want to give the exact specs, but I'm running a 255/263 .624/.624 115 lsa on pump gas with 12.5:1 scr in my 408.....the that was spec'd for your 416 anywhere close? Just curious.....my 408 pulls like a beast all the way up to my 8,000 rpm fuel cut
