JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Doesn't Geoff offer cam doctoring?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Yes he does.

jaxeagle

Guys, great thread on HC cars. I have learned some and appreciate it. I am about to do a head swap in my car. Anyway, my question is a newbie question but I still want to ask your thoughts. What affect should I expect the head swap (from stock LS1 (01 Vette) to PRC 215cc) to have on my exhaust tone and volume? None, a little, or a lot?

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

I say it will make it louder. (Do not know by how much, but should make it a little louder at least.) LOUD is good!! Lol

You plan on doing a cam swap as well to reap the benefits of that flow?

jaxeagle

Yes heads and cam. I assumed at least a little louder but didn't know if it would change the tone much. I assume the changes would be more at WOT than idle?

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

It'll be louder everywhere. Especially with the cam. One of the things a lot of people complain about is the sewing machine sound is definitely amplified with heads/headers and a cam with very aggressive lobes.

jaxeagle

Some want all quiet, some want quiet until WOT and then aggressive. Me, I like all the sound everywhere in the range. I love a loping cam.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

So is this the way it works? I've sent emails, and called those that can be reached by phone. I have yet to receive a reply, or an answer to a phone call. It must be nice to not need/want my money...lol

Advanced Induction- No reply from email, and no customer service line. (Still mind blown to how this system works...lol)

Total Engine Airflow- No reply from email, and no answer when called.

Livernois Motorsports- No reply from email or PM. They did answer my phone call but did not seem very interested in helping me.

I don't know maybe it’s just me. I would like some info from these companies; I didn't think that was to much to ask.

What do you guys think, everyone seems to have had success for the most part in contacting them but me. As a customer I don't feel as if I should have to go to the end of the world (Supposedly tomorrow... lol) to get some questions answered.

maxpower_454

iTrader: (7)

The only one I have experience with is AI but I will tell you that Phill will definitely get back to you. He has lots of knowledge about LS motors and will do anything to help you make a decision. It is frustrating that they only communicate through email but give it sometime. It's the holidays afterall.

HeavyMetl

iTrader: (2)

I'm working with AI right now on a set of 243's and a custom cam. I know he's been busy with the holidays but he's always responded to an email.

I'm doing AI 226cc 243's, Fast 102, custom spec'd AI cam 236/242 111LSA .630, fresh forged shortblock with ARP fasteners. I'll be sure to post some results when its all tuned and running.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Ai will get back to you eventually. TEA... well. Mike has gotten back to me once or twice. I'd honestly just go talk to Brian Tooley. He doesn't own TEA anymore, but he can still do anything they can do for you. And Livernois. I've got a response from them, but I'm not sure what to make of it? Their product looks good, but I think I'd feel better having Phil or Tooley set up the heads the way I need them setup.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Patience.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

I've got a little time until the funds are transferred into my account anyway. I'm just very anxious to see what the vendors have to say in response to the products they represent. So I can compare them myself prior to making the final call. TSP is still very alive in this race for my build and particular budget. I appreciate all the feedback guys and I will continue to keep this thread as up to date as possible with my progress. I've got a few parts coming in here and there to keep me occupied, got to love the holidays!

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

I'd narrow it down to Livernois, Ai, WCCH, and TEA. That's where I'm at. All cost pretty similar, but right now Ai is leading the charge due to having the same sort of power as the TEA and Livernois castings with larger valves. WCCH does great work, but I've never seen results from the LS6 heads - usually only LS3/L92/LS7.

So, I gain extra clearance while not giving up any power with Ai. The only problem is, TEA, WCCH, and Livernois don't need cores from me to do their work. Ai does and that's just something else to look at. TEA and Livernois also have stock valve port jobs, but I don't know what sort of power they make. Either the results suck and no one posts them or they are all horrible at selling their product.

I know PRC Stage 1s can make decent power, but honestly, I've never seen those put up numbers even close to the others with similar cams/mods. However, I too have not ruled out TSP because they provide good value for the money even if the power isn't quite as good.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

I see what you're saying. For me, honestly TSP is cheaper in the long run. From new lid, to Head and cam, to the extra tools I'll need to get the job done. This build, utilizing TSP's Head and Cam package will fit my budget well. I've changed my mind a hundred times and might change it a hundred more..lol I just heard back from Phil at Advanced Induction, it wasn't necessarily the response I was hoping for, but I guess I can continue to fight for information from the vendors. I'm not asking for CNC coding lol I swear, all I have asked for is what combo from their products would net me my goals.

Anyway, I'm not worried about larger valves causing a P2V clearance issue. It seems to have been done time and time again. Obviously with larger valves we can increase flow. I would be more worried about valve shrouding, but then again you can have the combustion chamber milled to a specific cc so that will create a nice flow pattern. Not saying one valve size is better than another, but in my mind I think a larger opening will allow more air. The runner feeding the valve is where the money is. Some prefer 220 and some prefer 227. I guess that's where the cam and intake come into play as these will maximize or restrict the heads. I have no experience with any of these heads as of yet, so my word is only backed by my research and theories.

I appreciate the conversation though and maybe you will have made a decision prior to me and I could learn from your experiences as well. The holidays have had an impact on vendors responding which is reasonable and I do not hold it against them. Honestly I'm ready to start tearing down the car, I'm just trying to hold back. I don't even walk through the garage anymore..lol

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

New update to the original post. (The purchase order basically)

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

So... It's official I got a set of TEA Stage 2 LS6 heads 63cc.

Dont shoot me for this... A Comp Cams 230/230 .613 .591 111+2 ICL 109 (AKA "El Torro?)

I got the Heads and Cam off a forum member who had just got them back from a refresh, and the Cam is BNIB.

What do you think? I'm still doing research on PTV clearance and I will also measure myself. I would just like to know something before I get it installed and find our there is an issue. I would like to run a .040 gasket still that way I can bump the compression up some more. Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated.

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

You should be good with PTV clearance since that cam only has 8* overlap, but you should still verify the clearance first. BTW, that cam should make good power and be very streetable.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

You'll be around .030" intake clearance if everything specs out exactly.

The XFI 230 on a 109 ICL has around .069" valve lift at TDC and you multiply that by 1.7 (rocker ratio) to get your TDC clearance. That's .1173"

The formula for swagging the head clearance is as follows:
Freedrop - piston depth - .080 (standard minimum clearance, but .060 is okay as well) + gasket thickness = total Lift clearance @ TDC

If your valve lift at TDC if more than the clearance then you have to flycut.

Using that formula I get the following:

.120" free drop (.030" less than LS6 due to the 2.04" valves) - .006" - .060" + .051" = .085"

You're off by more than .030" between the two formulas. And TDC isn't even where it'll be closest. So this is just an approximation to let you know if you should be buying the stuff. Of course, Comp Cams always spec off and who knows what the engine spec's out to be. So the numbers could be off a bit from here, but I doubt you're gaining .030" to .050" of clearance.

This is why I'm so leery of using LS6 heads with larger valves. TSP talks about this a lot too. Which is why they recess the valves some in their stock castings. That's why the Stage 1 TEAs, Ai, and Livernois Stage 2s are good as well. They use the stock valves and you gain usually .030" just form the change in valves. And you lose maybe 5-7HP.

The alternative is to run the cam on a higher ICL (Say 112 or so) and gain clearance that way. You'd gain between .015" and .020" that way and it becomes more palatable. The problem is you'd then need to run more compression with 60cc chambers to get back the lost dynamic compression. It's almost a 1 to 1 trade-off, so it doesn't matter.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Jake you're the man for getting this into a formula. The Google machine said there wasn't one.

So understanding this. .080" is the standard minimum clearance. .060" will work. Where did you find this information? I ask because a lot of people say .100" is standard. I have no idea, thats why I ask.

Using your formula

.120" (Free drop) - .006" (Piston depth) - .080" (STD. Min clearance) + .051" (Gasket thickness) = .085" Meaning I'm .005" in the clear over the standard minimum?

.120-.006-.080+.040=0.074 If .060 will work, then .074 puts me in the middle, if I wanted to bump up the compression using the smaller gasket.

Now what I guess I'm mistaking is I have to subtract the TDC Clearance-Head clearance?

I have the CAM specs attached. I can also work it out with him and tell him this cam would cause PTV clearance issues and get my money back.

In the mean time, what cam would be a good choice for these heads if this one doesn't work out?