What's up with Comp Cams ?
The issue the other guy mentioned was inertia holding the lifter above the cam past the nose and then eventually slamming back into the cam. That impact is such a high force that things tear up. Thats my idea of polevaulting a pushrod. That would be higher than forces seen by the opening ramp. thats my 2 cents
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 188
Likes: 1
From: Houston, TX
A mild lobe with a weak pushrod will do what is shown in the Spintron graphs. I'll post a pic tomorrow of a Viper cam out of a bone stock engine with two damaged lobes from pushrod flex. You don't need an LSK lobe to hurt valvetrain parts if the combination is bad.
We have a lot of students that buy cams for their LSx project engines from Comp, and I know two engine builders who are considered among the best in the country here in H-Town that have done literally thousands of LS engines. This is the first I've heard of a rash of failures.
I think the table of bad cams would do everyone far more good if they were sent back to Comp to be analyzed?
We have a lot of students that buy cams for their LSx project engines from Comp, and I know two engine builders who are considered among the best in the country here in H-Town that have done literally thousands of LS engines. This is the first I've heard of a rash of failures.
I think the table of bad cams would do everyone far more good if they were sent back to Comp to be analyzed?
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
An outside perspective Here are two Spintron charts showing what I described in my other post. This is what happens with too little pushrod stiffness. No lobe will survive this except maybe an 8620 core or equivalent.
I also believe the problem demonstrated is the reason why so many guys fail solid roller lifters. You can't hammer the lifters onto the lobe like that and not knock out needle bearings and spread the forks on the lifter body.
I hope this helps some of you understand what's going in with the valvetrain a little better.
Spintron pics are courtesy of 3V Performance.
I also believe the problem demonstrated is the reason why so many guys fail solid roller lifters. You can't hammer the lifters onto the lobe like that and not knock out needle bearings and spread the forks on the lifter body.
I hope this helps some of you understand what's going in with the valvetrain a little better.
Spintron pics are courtesy of 3V Performance.
The quoted post is on the money. A Valvetrain out of control will self destruct. Valvetrains are a system, and everything must be properly matched. One of the key things to keep in mind is that the higher you go in performance, the smaller your margin of error. The various cam companies mentioned all make high quality parts. Trust me, we have destroyed tool steel valve train parts made to exacting standards by top mfg's. Where the parts bad? Nope, we just asked more of the part than it could handle because our Valvetrain was over the edge.
One other thing to add... Don't underestimate oil. NASCAR oil development played a big role in enabling more aggressive Valvetrain performance. Break-in oil is not just for flat tappet cams, and more aggressive valvetrains need more ZDDP than off-the-shelf oils deliver. Without getting into an oil discussion, just know that the oils that NASCAR teams use are engineered for more aggressive valvetrains. That technology should not be underestimated...
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 8
From: Katy, TX
I was thinking the same thing, however there are plenty of independent material testing shops right here in Houston for anyone local that wants to try it with their worn-out cam.
A Valvetrain out of control will self destruct. Valvetrains are a system, and everything must be properly matched. One of the key things to keep in mind is that the higher you go in performance, the smaller your margin of error.
One other thing to add... Don't underestimate oil.
One other thing to add... Don't underestimate oil.
This thread has definitely put me in the right direction for my H/C/I. All my questions & concerns have been answered here. Great info for sure!
To everyone taking the time to point out the importance of proper valvetrain geometry, and Oil.
To everyone taking the time to point out the importance of proper valvetrain geometry, and Oil. Yeah theres alot of good talk in here thanks to the vendors. Valvetrain geometry, oil, ect no doubt. But IMO theres enough claims to sway away from the said company. Its not only this thread either. I have heard bad things before this thread. To hear these failures are from bad oil or bad valvetrain just dosent fly to well when it seems like only one cam company is having most of the failures. Hopefully my motor last a while with this comp cam. Next time I will not use them.
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I agree with all the science and tech. My thing is this. If I design a part requiring the knowledge and tech of a greg good, brian tooley, eric koenig, smokey yunick and so forth, THEN turn around and market that part 19yo joe newbie racer with no explicit tech support, do I not assume at least SOME responsibility when that part fails?
Put it like this. I was a machine gun instructor in the corps. I taught guys what a machine gun can and cant do intermittently vs sustained. When a team leader uses his 5.56mm machine gun, he knows it can only fire so many rounds a minutes and continue that pace for hours on end. It can fire faster, a lot faster (crazy, stupid fast), but it wont last long. He has to decide how to use it. Now, I give that same gun to someone whos never been taught that, and I dont teach him, when he links 100million rounds (just a number) togetjer, sets the gun for max rate and lets her rip, when the gun fails, whos fault is it? The gunners? He's the one who didn't use the weapon properly. No, its my fault, im the resident expert, im the one who assigned him the gun with no training. In my analogy, the fire team leader is all the vendors and installers of these cams, the gunner is the car owner, wnd the machine gun instructor is comp. Was the gun bad in this example? Not at all. Are these comp cams bad? According to some of you, no. But like making the gun available with no instruction or support is what led to failure, making those aggressive lobes available led to failure. It would be right for comp to accept at least SOME liability. Dig what im saying fellas?
Put it like this. I was a machine gun instructor in the corps. I taught guys what a machine gun can and cant do intermittently vs sustained. When a team leader uses his 5.56mm machine gun, he knows it can only fire so many rounds a minutes and continue that pace for hours on end. It can fire faster, a lot faster (crazy, stupid fast), but it wont last long. He has to decide how to use it. Now, I give that same gun to someone whos never been taught that, and I dont teach him, when he links 100million rounds (just a number) togetjer, sets the gun for max rate and lets her rip, when the gun fails, whos fault is it? The gunners? He's the one who didn't use the weapon properly. No, its my fault, im the resident expert, im the one who assigned him the gun with no training. In my analogy, the fire team leader is all the vendors and installers of these cams, the gunner is the car owner, wnd the machine gun instructor is comp. Was the gun bad in this example? Not at all. Are these comp cams bad? According to some of you, no. But like making the gun available with no instruction or support is what led to failure, making those aggressive lobes available led to failure. It would be right for comp to accept at least SOME liability. Dig what im saying fellas?
I tried warning people about Comp cams in many threads-I remember 01ssreda4 and I getting flamed for it in a thread not too long ago. While oil etc may make the problem worse....
I've learned a lot from Martin and a lot from Joe@LPM about valve train these last couple months. From the reason we are going with a .100 wall pushrod in my motor vs an .080 wall etc etc. Martin assured me my cam would be within spec's of what Comp told me and was when it was degree'd within I want to say less than a degree by what Joe told me. Joe won't let me run any other break in oil in this motor with putting his name on it as well so there is a lot that goes into these "Failures" and not a single person on this earth can narrow it down EVERYTIME and be right...
The Comp catalog has this to say about LSK lobes, copy and pasted.
The LSK Series has been designed with enhanced characteristics from our latest professional drag racing profiles. These have excellent ramp quickness. They are VERY hard on parts and not generally recommended in street applications!
How much more does a manufacturer need to say about running these lobes on a street car?
A lot of shops sell them because the customer wants the most lift they can buy. At that point, the customer has to take all liability for any failures. The big name shop isn't going to tell the customer not to buy them, they just sell the customer what he wants.
Some customers think because a big name performance shop sells them, they must be fine. I've talked to some of these guys until I'm blue in the face, and they're convinced that a .650" lift cam in a street car using stock rockers isn't a problem. I can only led the horse to water, I can not make him drink...
The LSK Series has been designed with enhanced characteristics from our latest professional drag racing profiles. These have excellent ramp quickness. They are VERY hard on parts and not generally recommended in street applications!
How much more does a manufacturer need to say about running these lobes on a street car?
A lot of shops sell them because the customer wants the most lift they can buy. At that point, the customer has to take all liability for any failures. The big name shop isn't going to tell the customer not to buy them, they just sell the customer what he wants.
Some customers think because a big name performance shop sells them, they must be fine. I've talked to some of these guys until I'm blue in the face, and they're convinced that a .650" lift cam in a street car using stock rockers isn't a problem. I can only led the horse to water, I can not make him drink...
Please hit me up at briantooleyracing@gmail.com As long as other vendors can read my PM's on here, I have no interest in replying to them, I'm going to leave my inbox full. Thanks.
I have custom cam from COMP and it matched the specs I asked for. Thunder Racing did a spec on it before if was shipped to me. It has over 150,000 miles on it. I had it out of the block at 128,000 miles and it looked great. I've been using their cams for for about 35 years now with no problems.
Please hit me up at briantooleyracing@gmail.com As long as other vendors can read my PM's on here, I have no interest in replying to them, I'm going to leave my inbox full. Thanks.
I've spent good time reading through this thread absorbing. Very informative, thanks to all the posters. 
Damian, I'm a regular user of German Castrol. I've always been against using additives because I believe oil engineers design their oil to be used as-is.
Remembering the Lucas synthetic oil "stabilizer" is just heavy soap and foams up at higher RPMs is another reason I stay away from additives.
You recommend the Lucas oil break-in additive for regular use for it's zinc content. I understand this but has it been tested to resist foaming?
How does all this added zinc affect catalytic converters?
Damian, I'm a regular user of German Castrol. I've always been against using additives because I believe oil engineers design their oil to be used as-is.
Remembering the Lucas synthetic oil "stabilizer" is just heavy soap and foams up at higher RPMs is another reason I stay away from additives.
You recommend the Lucas oil break-in additive for regular use for it's zinc content. I understand this but has it been tested to resist foaming?
How does all this added zinc affect catalytic converters?
Please hit me up at briantooleyracing@gmail.com As long as other vendors can read my PM's on here, I have no interest in replying to them, I'm going to leave my inbox full. Thanks.
I've spent good time reading through this thread absorbing. Very informative, thanks to all the posters.
Damian, I'm a regular user of German Castrol. I've always been against using additives because I believe oil engineers design their oil to be used as-is.
Remembering the Lucas synthetic oil "stabilizer" is just heavy soap and foams up at higher RPMs is another reason I stay away from additives.
You recommend the Lucas oil break-in additive for regular use for it's zinc content. I understand this but has it been tested to resist foaming?
How does all this added zinc affect catalytic converters?
Damian, I'm a regular user of German Castrol. I've always been against using additives because I believe oil engineers design their oil to be used as-is.
Remembering the Lucas synthetic oil "stabilizer" is just heavy soap and foams up at higher RPMs is another reason I stay away from additives.
You recommend the Lucas oil break-in additive for regular use for it's zinc content. I understand this but has it been tested to resist foaming?
How does all this added zinc affect catalytic converters?