callys

iTrader: (2)

I thought I would weigh in on this thread after following for a while as I have 10 years experience trying to get LS engines and Ford small blocks to pass the sniffer here in CA (Im in San Diego).

You will not pass smog with a cam with overlap. And if you do, it will be once, and it will require a lot of tricks. When you have overlap you have the intake and the exhaust valve open at the same time which means fuel is flowing directly into the exhaust.

Tuning has very little to do with the physical event of the intake and exhaust valve being open at the same time......

My brother ran the Ford E303 (0 overlap less aggressive ramp rate)..brand new cats...just barely passed.

B303 (0 overlap at .050 more aggressive ramp)...brand new cats...would not pass without ethanol in the tank.

F303...4 degrees overlap...would not pass. Switched to 4 truck cats and ethanol...barely passed.

All of these were professional tuned.

In my Grand National I ran a 212/212 on a very tight LSA...would not pass. Swapped to a 200/200 108 LSA and it passed.

In my 2002 z06 I ran the TR224/224 114 LSA cam...passed just fine. Went to a 224/230 114 LSA...would not pass.

In my opinion, based on lots of real California experience, the 224/236 115 LSA cam will most definitely not pass...

I know for a fact that TR224 114 cam passes. The TR224 112 cam is right at 0 overlap. It may pass with tricks. A 224/228 114 LSA cam is at 0 overlap and may pass with tricks. If I had to do it again I would look for a ~220/228 114 LSA or thereabouts.

Also if you hit mid-400s (as in 450) with any cam that passes California smog, ported 243s, and an LS6 manifold there must be fairy dust in the tank.

IRNMADN

As you know, Cali only has 91 octane. So no "Fairy Dust" available. lol
So is there any cam that will kick out good usable street power and have a cammed idle and pass??? What about the 224/228 114lsa or the 220/228 114?

mchicia1

iTrader: (5)

224/228 114+3 is what I would run out of those two choices. It will have a broad power band, have a noticeable lope, and should pass smog with the -2 overlap.

callys

iTrader: (2)

If you can get that 224/228 114 cut +3 it should be ok but that is cutting it close with the aggressive ramp on these cams. I think a 220/228 114 is your best bet to for sure pass.

My next 2 cents...you are throwing away a ton of money on those pfadt headers over just going to ls7 manifolds with a cam this size. With the 224/224 114 in my z06 with stock 243s...1 3/4" long tubes were worth 14rwhp over the LS6 manifolds, I bet if I had the ls7 manifolds that would be 10 or less. You would be paying $150/HP

And:
$2600 heads/cam
$400 (or whatever you paid for the 243s)
$1650 pfadt tri ys
Injectors???

That's almost procharger money. ~$150 on the ls7 manifolds that pass smog and work fine with the small cam makes it more reasonable.

mchicia1

iTrader: (5)

I am an ls7 manifold user as well. You are right in that the peak power will be similar, however, once you go H/C, you are leaving a ton of torque on the table without LTs.

Headers will give you 30-40 ft/lbs across the mid range which will be a significant gain at the track (probably 3 mph). I'm swapping out to xspower headers this month for this reason

On a stock head/cam car, there won't be much difference between the LS7 manifolds and headers though.

Do you still have the dyno graphs when you switched to LTs? You gotta see the whole curve, it's not just peak.

callys

iTrader: (2)

I do not I didn't think they worth keeping. I immediately went back to the ls6 manifolds and sold the headers. It wasn't anywhere near 30-40 lbs for me with a 224/224 cam

mchicia1

iTrader: (5)

A guy on his c5z did the ls7 manifold swap. He picked up power up top, but look at his torque value...only 358 ft/lbs (only +7 ft lbs over ls6 manifolds). Stock cam/head cars should be about even hp/tq. You'll see most c5zs dyno 380/380 with headers. This gets amplified when you have ported heads and an aftermarket cam. I'm not saying the ls7 manifolds aren't worthwhile, just that headers will be better. Pfadts are pricey for sure though, but they are very high quality. XSPower is still running their presale on their headers for about half the price.

IRNMADN

I went over going supercharger or turbo at the beginning. I had decided I wanted an angry N/A motor. I don't race idiots on the street or take it to the track. I drive it everyday and enjoy some spirited driving when I can get away with it. I'm willing to spend about the same as I would have for the boosted setup and have far less power but have a really solid and reliable motor. It should be strong and aggressive sounding which is what I want most. I also can't afford to have to upgrade the rest of the drivetrain because of going with a supercharger. Stock trans and rear should hold up to low 400s type of power.
As far as the Pfadts go and their cost.... They are hands down the best quality headers for the C5. I'm sure someone will argue that ARH, LG... I don't see it. These things are artwork. I already have their coilovers, soon the sways, and now the headers. Plus they are tri-y's and not the common 4to1 design like everyone else. With so many C5s on the road, tough to be different.

Exidous

iTrader: (11)

Biggest issue with idle lope is it's mostly from LSA. 0* has a little bit of a lope. I used to have a 228/228 114. 0* You need at least -6* to pass smog. Contact one of the cam guru's, Marting at Tick or Pat G. It may have a small lope at 6*.

(Int Dur + Exh Dur) - (LSA*4)=Overlap

220/228 114 = -8* overlap isn't a bad choice but I would most certainly talk to the above cam guys.

IRNMADN

My buddie I work with is a ricer. He's got a little Honda with a race motor, header, no cats.... For $250 he passed a couple days ago through a friend of a friend ; ) My fear is that the connection is lost and then I'm screwed. I won't have to smog test again until March 2015 so I do have time to establish back up connections. But that's the risk I'm taking going with a bigger cam.
It also puts me at square one again on a cam. If I'm not gonna worry about my car being smog friendly, what cam do I go for? Is there even a BEST street cam?

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Personal opinion - Street Sweeper HT

There is no BEST cam. But that cam would shine with those heads

mchicia1

iTrader: (5)

As long as you don't royally **** up the cam choice, you will make good power with those heads, headers, and fast.


Pretty much anything in the

226 to 232 intake side
230 to 236 exhaust
111-114 LSA

Anything in that range will make great power, it just depends where you want to peak and how peaky or broad you want your power band.

IRNMADN

Never updated this. Never could decide which cam to go with. After going back and forth with Phil at AI, we decided on a 224/224 ~114lsa.
And there was no getting the Pfadt Tri-Y headers as their doors closed. Looked at the XSpower's but was too late and all the 1 7/8" headers were spoken for. Plus they all have the air tube on them and I kinda want the clean look without. So I ended up ordering the 1 7/8" LG Super Pro's with cats.
Fingers crossed that that cam, through those headers, out of my Corsa Indy Pace mufflers has it sounding like a song. Still need Tq Tube couplers, new LS7 clutch setup. Few other little things. Can't wait to see what she puts out when I have it tuned.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

Pass on the LS7 and get a Monster stage 2.

IRNMADN

$$$$ is and has become a major issue. Already way over budget. What is your reason for saying to not go with the LS7 clutch? Why the Monster?

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

IMO, if you can swing the extra cash(about $200) for the Monster stage 2 I'd do it.
Now if it's just not possible then the LS7 will work fine, I've been running a LS7/aluminum flywheel package for about 3yrs now without any issues, but I'm also running a Tick Adj. master cylinder to.

IRNMADN

Honestly didn't realize it wasn't much more. I didn't plan to run an aluminum flywheel simply because of what I've read about them for use on a street only car. Just want a clutch that will feel good for a daily driver, hold good for my power level, and last. Not looking to do this again any time soon.

fubar569

iTrader: (9)

I was able to get jegs to price match me at 631.xx on a McLeod RST Twin Disc. 25 dollar gift certificate from christmas put me at 606.xx shipped.

That's a hell of a lot more clutch than either the LS7 or Monster Stg 2 and for not much more money.

Note: does not include flywheel.

dr_whigham

iTrader: (49)

And that's an issue as the OP is cash strapped as it is. I'd personally run a Monster before a Mcleod, but again, that's my personal opinion. Having worked with Steve in the past, he's a WEALTH of knowledge, and always available to talk to on the phone.

Monster 2, 18# FW and she drove like stock, but with a better than stock engagement feel.

They're about to have a sale here real soon, OP... Tick is where I bought mine last year, directly from Martin, who's also nothing short of great to work with.

As for the LS7, nothing against it, other than the self adjusting pressure plate. That is all.

IRNMADN

Who is about to have a sale? Monster or Tick? Looking on Ticks site, they have a package deal close to a grand. Should I be looking at the adjustable master or is the LS6 setup fine for what I'm doing?
And I will certainly start reading about the Monster. Thanks for the heads up.