MMS 220 heads....Info, Pics, and discussion inside
05-19-2015, 03:30 PM
#61
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
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Racinrik88
I'm just 1 1/2 hrs north of you near Half Moon Bay. What is your
Chassis C5 or F Body?
383 combo MMS 220's with light valves,
MAMOFIED Fast 102 W/ NW 102 TB, Cam 231*/235* .620"/.600"
LSA 114* + 2* ARH 1 7/8 LTs, X Pipe with true duals at least
2 1/2". I will bet this is pretty close to the recipe Tony would
Prescribe for your build + light clutch & wheels/tires.
Been studying and reading all his builds for
The last 8+ years and actually know him pretty well lol.
Have actually gotten 2 MAMOFIED FAST INTAKES and a MAMOFIED
TFS LS3 Package as well. You could not get better advice, products and
service for a street able and violent performer!
I'm just 1 1/2 hrs north of you near Half Moon Bay. What is your
Chassis C5 or F Body?
383 combo MMS 220's with light valves,
MAMOFIED Fast 102 W/ NW 102 TB, Cam 231*/235* .620"/.600"
LSA 114* + 2* ARH 1 7/8 LTs, X Pipe with true duals at least
2 1/2". I will bet this is pretty close to the recipe Tony would
Prescribe for your build + light clutch & wheels/tires.
Been studying and reading all his builds for
The last 8+ years and actually know him pretty well lol.
Have actually gotten 2 MAMOFIED FAST INTAKES and a MAMOFIED
TFS LS3 Package as well. You could not get better advice, products and
service for a street able and violent performer!
05-19-2015, 05:18 PM
#62
Teching In
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
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Racinrik88
I'm just 1 1/2 hrs north of you near Half Moon Bay. What is your
Chassis C5 or F Body?
383 combo MMS 220's with light valves,
MAMOFIED Fast 102 W/ NW 102 TB, Cam 231*/235* .620"/.600"
LSA 114* + 2* ARH 1 7/8 LTs, X Pipe with true duals at least
2 1/2". I will bet this is pretty close to the recipe Tony would
Prescribe for your build + light clutch & wheels/tires.
Been studying and reading all his builds for
The last 8+ years and actually know him pretty well lol.
Have actually gotten 2 MAMOFIED FAST INTAKES and a MAMOFIED
TFS LS3 Package as well. You could not get better advice, products and
service for a street able and violent performer!
I'm just 1 1/2 hrs north of you near Half Moon Bay. What is your
Chassis C5 or F Body?
383 combo MMS 220's with light valves,
MAMOFIED Fast 102 W/ NW 102 TB, Cam 231*/235* .620"/.600"
LSA 114* + 2* ARH 1 7/8 LTs, X Pipe with true duals at least
2 1/2". I will bet this is pretty close to the recipe Tony would
Prescribe for your build + light clutch & wheels/tires.
Been studying and reading all his builds for
The last 8+ years and actually know him pretty well lol.
Have actually gotten 2 MAMOFIED FAST INTAKES and a MAMOFIED
TFS LS3 Package as well. You could not get better advice, products and
service for a street able and violent performer!
05-23-2015, 01:59 PM
#65
TECH Veteran
06-04-2015, 02:45 AM
#66
Out of curiosity, as it's an AFR casting, does it maintain the CARB status of the 205/210/215 heads? I don't ever "plan" on moving to Cali but if the AF says jump....
One more question, I know the 210cc AFR's lose nothing down low compared to the 205's and gain a bit up top as you mentioned in another post. What about these pieces of automotive art? Another 10cc on an SBE LS1. Would anything significant be lost down low compared to the 205's?
One more question, I know the 210cc AFR's lose nothing down low compared to the 205's and gain a bit up top as you mentioned in another post. What about these pieces of automotive art? Another 10cc on an SBE LS1. Would anything significant be lost down low compared to the 205's?
Last edited by Exidous; 06-04-2015 at 07:37 AM.
06-04-2015, 10:37 PM
#68
LS1Tech Sponsor
Thread Starter
Out of curiosity, as it's an AFR casting, does it maintain the CARB status of the 205/210/215 heads? I don't ever "plan" on moving to Cali but if the AF says jump....
One more question, I know the 210cc AFR's lose nothing down low compared to the 205's and gain a bit up top as you mentioned in another post. What about these pieces of automotive art? Another 10cc on an SBE LS1. Would anything significant be lost down low compared to the 205's?
One more question, I know the 210cc AFR's lose nothing down low compared to the 205's and gain a bit up top as you mentioned in another post. What about these pieces of automotive art? Another 10cc on an SBE LS1. Would anything significant be lost down low compared to the 205's?
Also the gains in area under the curve which effect airflow at every RPM and power output....these heads are slightly larger but flow alot more air.
Ratios might be helpful to look at
Our original 205 flowed about 296 cfm = 1.44 CFM per cc
The V2 AFR 210 flowed 302 cfm = 1.44 CFM per cc
The new MMS 220 flows 318 CFM (on a 3.900 bore) = 1.45 CFM per cc so just as efficient which is challenging as ports get larger (actually slightly more efficient), BUT offering alot more peak flow which helps bump the peak torque and HP output of the engine.
Also the mid/high lift numbers of the new 220 are very fat....this head goes almost 10 more CFM at .550 than the 210 flows at it's .600 peak and 15 more CFM over the .600 number of the AFR 205 @ .600 lift. Read that again if you have to cause its a very profound piece of data. That's really going to help fill the cylinder and plays a big role here because your typical .600 lift cam spends alot of time cresting thru .550 on the way up to .600....crossing its peak, and slowly cresting back down till it breaks thru .550 on the way back down. Basically the entire nose of the cam keeps the valve from .550 or higher and back to .550....alot of time is spent with the valve dwelling in that area so while the efficiency ratios of all three heads in question paint a good picture (strong velocity and solid peak amounts of airflow), its not the whole picture and the more you dig the better it looks.
Dont forget the key elements in what makes a head truly great are good airspeed (check), good peak flow (check), and good low and midlift numbers....aka what I like to refer to as "area under the curve" (big check in the case of my new 220's). Its the delicate combination of those three items (not just looking at a peak number) that really determine how effective a cylinder head truly is. Get it all right where you have a good showing of all these things I just mentioned and look out....the engine thinks its under boost based on how many CFM its moving compared to how much more poorly an average head might fill the cylinder.
Its good stuff guys....I love it at least....LOL
Oh regarding smog/CARB etc.....technically AFR never smogged any of the new V2 heads which at this point is their entire product line of AFR LS products. Smog testing was done on the older 205/225 product back in 04' so I'm not sure if just the casting would allow it to technically comply or not and if so if the new MMS product using the same casting would be grandfathered in as well. If you keep the cam tame enough you can still pass the sniffer and that's all most shops typically focus on. That's the most honest answer I could provide at this point.....if I ever get better clarification one way or the other I will update the thread with the info
Cheers,
Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 06-04-2015 at 10:42 PM.
06-22-2015, 12:40 AM
#73
LS1Tech Sponsor
Thread Starter
They will work great....the exhaust port is strong.....intake moves alot of air and has a reasonably sized cross section. I know alot of guys who made good power with the 1st design AFR 205's I did back in 04......these heads are a ton better than that head and IMO a good turbo set-up can make stupid power if you get everything else right (can grind etc.)
-Tony
-Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
06-22-2015, 08:33 AM
#74
They will work great....the exhaust port is strong.....intake moves alot of air and has a reasonably sized cross section. I know alot of guys who made good power with the 1st design AFR 205's I did back in 04......these heads are a ton better than that head and IMO a good turbo set-up can make stupid power if you get everything else right (can grind etc.)
-Tony
-Tony
Would it be better to email or call you to possibly get a combo together? Did I miss what size cc these come in
Last edited by SCott5; 06-22-2015 at 08:47 AM.
06-22-2015, 04:41 PM
#77
LS1Tech Sponsor
Thread Starter
-Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
06-22-2015, 07:34 PM
#79
Similar scenario....it all revolves around efficiency levels etc.
Also the gains in area under the curve which effect airflow at every RPM and power output....these heads are slightly larger but flow alot more air.
Ratios might be helpful to look at
Our original 205 flowed about 296 cfm = 1.44 CFM per cc
The V2 AFR 210 flowed 302 cfm = 1.44 CFM per cc
The new MMS 220 flows 318 CFM (on a 3.900 bore) = 1.45 CFM per cc so just as efficient which is challenging as ports get larger (actually slightly more efficient), BUT offering alot more peak flow which helps bump the peak torque and HP output of the engine.
Also the mid/high lift numbers of the new 220 are very fat....this head goes almost 10 more CFM at .550 than the 210 flows at it's .600 peak and 15 more CFM over the .600 number of the AFR 205 @ .600 lift. Read that again if you have to cause its a very profound piece of data. That's really going to help fill the cylinder and plays a big role here because your typical .600 lift cam spends alot of time cresting thru .550 on the way up to .600....crossing its peak, and slowly cresting back down till it breaks thru .550 on the way back down. Basically the entire nose of the cam keeps the valve from .550 or higher and back to .550....alot of time is spent with the valve dwelling in that area so while the efficiency ratios of all three heads in question paint a good picture (strong velocity and solid peak amounts of airflow), its not the whole picture and the more you dig the better it looks.
Dont forget the key elements in what makes a head truly great are good airspeed (check), good peak flow (check), and good low and midlift numbers....aka what I like to refer to as "area under the curve" (big check in the case of my new 220's). Its the delicate combination of those three items (not just looking at a peak number) that really determine how effective a cylinder head truly is. Get it all right where you have a good showing of all these things I just mentioned and look out....the engine thinks its under boost based on how many CFM its moving compared to how much more poorly an average head might fill the cylinder.
Its good stuff guys....I love it at least....LOL
Oh regarding smog/CARB etc.....technically AFR never smogged any of the new V2 heads which at this point is their entire product line of AFR LS products. Smog testing was done on the older 205/225 product back in 04' so I'm not sure if just the casting would allow it to technically comply or not and if so if the new MMS product using the same casting would be grandfathered in as well. If you keep the cam tame enough you can still pass the sniffer and that's all most shops typically focus on. That's the most honest answer I could provide at this point.....if I ever get better clarification one way or the other I will update the thread with the info
Cheers,
Tony
Also the gains in area under the curve which effect airflow at every RPM and power output....these heads are slightly larger but flow alot more air.
Ratios might be helpful to look at
Our original 205 flowed about 296 cfm = 1.44 CFM per cc
The V2 AFR 210 flowed 302 cfm = 1.44 CFM per cc
The new MMS 220 flows 318 CFM (on a 3.900 bore) = 1.45 CFM per cc so just as efficient which is challenging as ports get larger (actually slightly more efficient), BUT offering alot more peak flow which helps bump the peak torque and HP output of the engine.
Also the mid/high lift numbers of the new 220 are very fat....this head goes almost 10 more CFM at .550 than the 210 flows at it's .600 peak and 15 more CFM over the .600 number of the AFR 205 @ .600 lift. Read that again if you have to cause its a very profound piece of data. That's really going to help fill the cylinder and plays a big role here because your typical .600 lift cam spends alot of time cresting thru .550 on the way up to .600....crossing its peak, and slowly cresting back down till it breaks thru .550 on the way back down. Basically the entire nose of the cam keeps the valve from .550 or higher and back to .550....alot of time is spent with the valve dwelling in that area so while the efficiency ratios of all three heads in question paint a good picture (strong velocity and solid peak amounts of airflow), its not the whole picture and the more you dig the better it looks.
Dont forget the key elements in what makes a head truly great are good airspeed (check), good peak flow (check), and good low and midlift numbers....aka what I like to refer to as "area under the curve" (big check in the case of my new 220's). Its the delicate combination of those three items (not just looking at a peak number) that really determine how effective a cylinder head truly is. Get it all right where you have a good showing of all these things I just mentioned and look out....the engine thinks its under boost based on how many CFM its moving compared to how much more poorly an average head might fill the cylinder.
Its good stuff guys....I love it at least....LOL
Oh regarding smog/CARB etc.....technically AFR never smogged any of the new V2 heads which at this point is their entire product line of AFR LS products. Smog testing was done on the older 205/225 product back in 04' so I'm not sure if just the casting would allow it to technically comply or not and if so if the new MMS product using the same casting would be grandfathered in as well. If you keep the cam tame enough you can still pass the sniffer and that's all most shops typically focus on. That's the most honest answer I could provide at this point.....if I ever get better clarification one way or the other I will update the thread with the info
Cheers,
Tony
Looks like the 235s would be as efficient as the 220s with 342cfm on a 235cc volume.
06-23-2015, 04:20 PM
#80
LS1Tech Sponsor
Thread Starter
Interesting how close they are isn't it!
And whats with the belated response!?.....LOL
I had kind of expected someone to pick up on that response after I first initially typed it and it was as if I never did....no one really paid attention to a post I thought very relevant! (Good job Jake....LOL).....just funny it took weeks to see this commentary.
Scott5.....fill free to call or email.....both work well for me. If you call and I dont pick up I'm either on the other line or working in the shop so leave a message. Best number to try is probably my mobile.....661-714-1317
Regards,
Tony
__________________
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!