When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I am not much for exotic combos when a well executed cost effective strategy with off the shelf parts can work so well. A regular Callies Compstar 4" stroker kit is rated at 7500 RPM. Then all you need a great set of heads, intake and matching camshaft. These can make 600 to 700 crank depending on how aggressive you go. What more could you ask from a street driven N/A engine? If you go to the LS3 block, the larger bore will open up more head possibilities.
Jake, I don't know how much you'd honestly notice going from 402 to 416, but I bet you can build a 402 much quicker and easier with off the shelf parts, etc.
What about a solid roller 402 (LLR, etc) with well optimized MMS 235 and matching intake? You might not even notice the -14 CI
Why run a Callie's crank when the LS7 is cheaper, still forged, and lighter to boot? You can also run Ti LS7 rods, and couple all that with JE's new lightweight Pistons, with reliefs custom to the valve angle of the heads?
I like paradigm breaking; being different and thinking outside the proverbial box.
Guys, Jake's a big baller. If you noticed his last build thread, things progressed rather quickly and he had no problem buying the best of the best parts. I'm sure this build will be no different. Might as well just go with the 416, or even bigger if you want. Once you've got the motor size figured out, focus on the heads. I still think the aftermarket LS7 castings (TFS or RHS) are the best option. With either TFS of RHS, you can have Chris Frank work his magic on them, and then get custom camshaft. I assume something like the MAST, Holley High Ram, or Super Victor intake is out of the question?
Based on my experience after 3 strokers and for my application, road use, drive-ability, high speed runs on private roads, I am sharing my thoughts.
For the next one I will go:
- The LS3 type block re-sleeved to what ever is still reasonable and short stroke (certainly an LS6 crankshaft)
- Dry Sump
- Solid Roller
- Power band from 5000rpm to 7400rpm, will turn it to 7500rpm as a base line with a 7700 redline still using the OEM PCM...
- All the remaining of my last build being still up to date, only the Intake manifold and Injectors should be upgraded...
It's actually cheaper to build with the LS7 parts than the shelf parts... at least for me. And they do what I want. Turn RPM.
The OE Frankenstein ported LS3 heads are interesting. I see a guy here did 550 with them an a mild LLR cam and a stock 376 LS3.
And you're right. I don't have a problem blowing a budget. I may end up doing a resleeved 454 with big port LS7s on it. Gun for 700 to the ground. **** it.
It's actually cheaper to build with the LS7 parts than the shelf parts... at least for me. And they do what I want. Turn RPM.
The OE Frankenstein ported LS3 heads are interesting. I see a guy here did 550 with them an a mild LLR cam and a stock 376 LS3.
And you're right. I don't have a problem blowing a budget. I may end up doing a resleeved 454 with big port LS7s on it. Gun for 700 to the ground. **** it.
Looking at something around this in hydraulic form: 243/257 113+4 at 65.5 EVO, 11.5 EVC, 12.5 IVO and 50.5 IVC and 24 degrees of overlap. Which would be around a 247/261 in LLR form... with about .700/.683 on the lift.
The Frankenstein Stage 2 LS3 heads are no joke. They've done over 750 at the flywheel on a Superflow 902 in a 414 solid roller setup. Bigger cam than what I'm looking at and a carb-style intake. But if I could 700 with a ported LS3 (or even a FAST 102) and a milder cam...
Looking at something around this in hydraulic form: 243/257 113+4 at 65.5 EVO, 11.5 EVC, 12.5 IVO and 50.5 IVC and 24 degrees of overlap. Which would be around a 247/261 in LLR form... with about .700/.683 on the lift.
The Frankenstein Stage 2 LS3 heads are no joke. They've done over 750 at the flywheel on a Superflow 902 in a 414 solid roller setup. Bigger cam than what I'm looking at and a carb-style intake. But if I could 700 with a ported LS3 (or even a FAST 102) and a milder cam...
The resleeved option comes in around $7k for the shortblock (my LS1 is not viable - would need an L33 5.3, which is the cheapest block) vs about 4800 for the LS3 416 with the same components in each. At the end of the day - not huge. The Stage 3 heads would do wonders in a 454...
I also am asking Chris if he prefers to port the LS3 intake or a FAST. Since I have pretty much everything for the FAST already, it's actually not that cost effective to move backward. I'd need to buy another TB and such, which can somewhat be offset by selling the 102 I have. But blah.
If you use an aluminum block, the expansion will be more than with my iron block. So your duration at the lifter will probably be about 6 or 7 degrees larger than the equvalent hydraulic cam engine whereas mine is about 4 degrees larger.
I may not need so much exhaust. The exhaust ports are much stronger than stock. Maybe something more like a 248/256 or something. But the 243/257 is good for nitrous as well with LS3 heads... so that's why I was leaning that way.
But that 408 had a 244/250 110+4 hydraulic and still peaked at 6900 with a FAST. So maybe a 113+4 is too late? Those ports flow like crazy.
If you are going to run nitrous, that early exhaust valve open will be nice. I would talk to Frankenstein and see if they have opinions on what the heads "like". Either way, if you give Kip the flow numbers and engine details, he will make sure you are where you need to be.
I saw a post where it was said to add 8 degrees when going from a hydraulic roller to a low lash solid roller. This was with an aluminum block.
I have to say that coincides with the LLSR specs I got from Kip. My exhaust system is pretty good with dual 3" but the head flow on the exhaust is average. So my exhaust is only 6 degrees greater than the intake. This is on a LS3 based 427 motor.
07-02-2015, 09:22 AM
