MMS 220 Build for "Ghost Hawk"
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
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From: My own internal universe
She lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I ended up bumping the starter and got pressure in 5 seconds. Had some lifter clatter for about two minutes. Quieted right down.
I had to turn the set screw a few turns to get it running. Then once I heard the cracker trying to learn idle I backed down the screw and she settled in at 850
The roughed in tune I did seems close. No fuel smell. Runs very steady. Not breaking 200 even with the fans off. Would probably be at 180 on the road with some air flow.
Still in SD for now. If I can figure out how to post a video I will.
I ended up bumping the starter and got pressure in 5 seconds. Had some lifter clatter for about two minutes. Quieted right down.
I had to turn the set screw a few turns to get it running. Then once I heard the cracker trying to learn idle I backed down the screw and she settled in at 850
The roughed in tune I did seems close. No fuel smell. Runs very steady. Not breaking 200 even with the fans off. Would probably be at 180 on the road with some air flow.
Still in SD for now. If I can figure out how to post a video I will.
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 448
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From: SoCal
MMS 220 Build for "Ghost Hawk"
Originally Posted by Tony Mamo
PS.....If the race to post the first results were a horse race it would be a horse nobody is watching that actually wins it flying by Unit and Darth in the back stretch for the coveted ring of roses at the finish line.....LOL It would be funny if someone out of the blue posted numbers this week.....LOL
Just kidding Tony. Still waiting on pushrods.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe
Ok, so my one brainfart.
I took her for a test drive and the first red light I came to, when I took offi got this huge plume of smoke. Same thing at every light.
So I pull in a parking lot and rev the motor to see if it's oil gas or water and it's definitely oil. Pop the hood, and when I rev I get a bunch of smoke off the passenger side collector.
So I go to check the oil level, and no dip stick tube. I forgot it on reassembly. So when I rev, oil squirts out the dipstick hole and onto the headers.
Doh!
I took her for a test drive and the first red light I came to, when I took offi got this huge plume of smoke. Same thing at every light.
So I pull in a parking lot and rev the motor to see if it's oil gas or water and it's definitely oil. Pop the hood, and when I rev I get a bunch of smoke off the passenger side collector.
So I go to check the oil level, and no dip stick tube. I forgot it on reassembly. So when I rev, oil squirts out the dipstick hole and onto the headers.
Doh!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 1,873
From: My own internal universe
Well burned the **** out of my hand but got it corrected.
Throttle response is pretty damn good. I haven't gone past 3500 yet, but on the low end I know she's gained some torque.
Also, with the vacuum leaks corrected, she isn't bucking near as bad. Has a sharper, meatier sound to it as well.
So for now I think I need to get some miles on her and let her learn the trims, etc. waiting to hear back from the tuner on some roller time.
Throttle response is pretty damn good. I haven't gone past 3500 yet, but on the low end I know she's gained some torque.
Also, with the vacuum leaks corrected, she isn't bucking near as bad. Has a sharper, meatier sound to it as well.
So for now I think I need to get some miles on her and let her learn the trims, etc. waiting to hear back from the tuner on some roller time.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
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From: My own internal universe
Not sure if this is normal but I ended up having to use the set screw to crack the throttle. It wants to idle high while moving but at dead stand still idles at 850.
Had a cop pull in behind me during test driving and I just knew he was gonna nab me for something - loud, fumes, whatever, but he ended up leaving me alone.
So I'll keep posting as things develop. Staying in SD until I get the maf calibration done.
Had a cop pull in behind me during test driving and I just knew he was gonna nab me for something - loud, fumes, whatever, but he ended up leaving me alone.
So I'll keep posting as things develop. Staying in SD until I get the maf calibration done.
Your tune or lack-there-of may have the rolling idle enabled. It's useful for bigger cams to maintain braking vacuum but some consider it a crutch for poorly tuned cracker and follower tables.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
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From: My own internal universe
Yeah I'm still working out the tuning. It's a bit of a mess since it's all SD.
On cold start it is pig rich. I mean visible gas fumes making your eyes water spitting out the exhaust rich. Once it hits about 160, the fuel smell almost completely disappears. I'm not seeing anything wrong in the tune. I'm thinking to delay the injector timing. It's pretty early on low coolant temps.
Positive no vacuum leaks, but I will be double checking manifold bolt torque every few days cause I've read fasts tend to loosen up.
Whatever's going on, it's all cold start stuff. The cam even tames a bit once it reaches temp.
On cold start it is pig rich. I mean visible gas fumes making your eyes water spitting out the exhaust rich. Once it hits about 160, the fuel smell almost completely disappears. I'm not seeing anything wrong in the tune. I'm thinking to delay the injector timing. It's pretty early on low coolant temps.
Positive no vacuum leaks, but I will be double checking manifold bolt torque every few days cause I've read fasts tend to loosen up.
Whatever's going on, it's all cold start stuff. The cam even tames a bit once it reaches temp.
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Yeah I'm still working out the tuning. It's a bit of a mess since it's all SD.
On cold start it is pig rich. I mean visible gas fumes making your eyes water spitting out the exhaust rich. Once it hits about 160, the fuel smell almost completely disappears. I'm not seeing anything wrong in the tune. I'm thinking to delay the injector timing. It's pretty early on low coolant temps.
Positive no vacuum leaks, but I will be double checking manifold bolt torque every few days cause I've read fasts tend to loosen up.
Whatever's going on, it's all cold start stuff. The cam even tames a bit once it reaches temp.
On cold start it is pig rich. I mean visible gas fumes making your eyes water spitting out the exhaust rich. Once it hits about 160, the fuel smell almost completely disappears. I'm not seeing anything wrong in the tune. I'm thinking to delay the injector timing. It's pretty early on low coolant temps.
Positive no vacuum leaks, but I will be double checking manifold bolt torque every few days cause I've read fasts tend to loosen up.
Whatever's going on, it's all cold start stuff. The cam even tames a bit once it reaches temp.
Oh and all cams cut up more when cold
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Monroe,NY
Ok, so my one brainfart.
I took her for a test drive and the first red light I came to, when I took offi got this huge plume of smoke. Same thing at every light.
So I pull in a parking lot and rev the motor to see if it's oil gas or water and it's definitely oil. Pop the hood, and when I rev I get a bunch of smoke off the passenger side collector.
So I go to check the oil level, and no dip stick tube. I forgot it on reassembly. So when I rev, oil squirts out the dipstick hole and onto the headers.
Doh!
I took her for a test drive and the first red light I came to, when I took offi got this huge plume of smoke. Same thing at every light.
So I pull in a parking lot and rev the motor to see if it's oil gas or water and it's definitely oil. Pop the hood, and when I rev I get a bunch of smoke off the passenger side collector.
So I go to check the oil level, and no dip stick tube. I forgot it on reassembly. So when I rev, oil squirts out the dipstick hole and onto the headers.
Doh!
Hopefully it wasn't to much of a mess. Congrats on the startup.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 10,450
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From: My own internal universe
Kidding. I'm trying to get with the tuner this week. I'm thinking it'll end up being Saturday morning, so we can have the dyno pretty much to ourselves. My impression right now is partial throttle pulls from 2000 to 5000 in second gear feel about like full throttle 3500-6500 used to feel. But the calibration on the butt dyno is out of date a bit, so I can't rely on it too much....
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
If it's really that rich I wouldn't run it again until you get a wideband on it and tuned. Good way to wash your rings. And 90% of the time when someone thinks their tune is off and way too rich after a cam swap, it's really just the cam has more overlap than factory and isn't burning some of the fuel and so that unburnt fuel gets tossed out the exhaust.
Oh and all cams cut up more when cold
Oh and all cams cut up more when cold
To be honest, I kind of like the way it chops cold, but I think I can tune that chop into the warm cam with some ignition retard at idle.
I know the MAF isn't calibrated, but I'm thinking to hook it up and see how it starts up, etc. It might be that the cold start SD tune is the issue. I'm just afraid it'll run lean, because all the readings off the old MAF are calibrated to a much smaller opening, therefore less air, which might put me lean until the trims learn themselves. I'll be reading up on tunes today to see if I can find the few settings I need to get some of this stuff ironed out.
Still, see previous post. Even with all this stuff wrong, it pulls incredibly well. I think when I get the tune right, what I'll really notice is throttle response.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
Minor update, but I bet it makes a difference - I found oil spitting out of one of the intake manifold bolt holes - bolt was a full turn loose. Snugged it back down. Then, I had to turn the idle screw a full turn out to bring the speed down to 900.
I have the LS6 PCV, and I used thread sealer on the rocker bolts, so it's catch can time. I started a thread on it before and never bought it because I got so enthralled with the build. I'm gonna go mighty mouse.
I have the LS6 PCV, and I used thread sealer on the rocker bolts, so it's catch can time. I started a thread on it before and never bought it because I got so enthralled with the build. I'm gonna go mighty mouse.
I couldn't bare to think about the crap from the PCV running over the mamo's. I'll have my can routed before first start up. Especially with the new piston rings I've installed. The MM is a good way to go. :-) I'm surprised you're seeing that much oil in the intake though.
I'll be doing the same, using my previous tune to get me close. Hopefully it will work out lol.
I'll be doing the same, using my previous tune to get me close. Hopefully it will work out lol.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
I couldn't bare to think about the crap from the PCV running over the mamo's. I'll have my can routed before first start up. Especially with the new piston rings I've installed. The MM is a good way to go. :-) I'm surprised you're seeing that much oil in the intake though.
I'll be doing the same, using my previous tune to get me close. Hopefully it will work out lol.
I'll be doing the same, using my previous tune to get me close. Hopefully it will work out lol.
Yeah, I was originally planning to put in a catch can during the build, but I got so excited to get the build done. And then all hell broke loose at home. Lost the upstairs AC (115-120 day time temps), daughter got in a wreck in the S10 in my sig, lost the downstairs AC (picked a record setting heat day to crap out), and a rock went through our back double-paned patio door - all while I was waiting for the crossover tube.
Everything is fine now. On the S10, she was rear-ended, so it was the other driver's fault. Since I make steel for a living, I have access to billets, which I used to reinforce the frame of the S10 for the LS2. A billet is 5"x5" piece of solid cast steel of undetermined length. The 3' billet crop I installed weighs 280 pounds. So, the car that hit the truck hit the billet I had under the rear bumper between the frame rails. Completely totaled out her brand new car. I've got a scratch under the rear tail light.
So, bottom line, I never ordered the can. I'll get to it though.
Tightening the intake helped quite a bit. I took it out for a drive, and the fast idle isn't as high as it was relative to the dead stop idle speed.
Sounds like you're on the way. 
I'm glad I do my own tuning and have a wideband. I got my stroker and new cam dialed in pretty quickly. Like said though with a big overlap you are going to have some gas running through in idle regardless.
I'm glad I do my own tuning and have a wideband. I got my stroker and new cam dialed in pretty quickly. Like said though with a big overlap you are going to have some gas running through in idle regardless. 
nice man lol i need to do more research on the MM can. are you going with the pcv version?what is the difference than having just a breather on the VC if you go with their pcv and breather on the can? sure it has a pcv but wont your oil get contaminated just like a normal breather
My new cam is a little smaller than my previous cam. Was a TSP 228R 114 and now 225/227 114. The heads are better though.
The breather is ideally to let fresh air in not out. The MM PCV can is still the way to go, even of you have a breather on the valve cover. It would be between the ls6 valley cover/opposite valve cover and the intake.
A breather on the valve cover is only suggested of you are running speed density and/or the engine vacuum is not connected to the PCV system. A breather will allow unmetered air into the engine like a vacuum leak.
The breather is ideally to let fresh air in not out. The MM PCV can is still the way to go, even of you have a breather on the valve cover. It would be between the ls6 valley cover/opposite valve cover and the intake.
A breather on the valve cover is only suggested of you are running speed density and/or the engine vacuum is not connected to the PCV system. A breather will allow unmetered air into the engine like a vacuum leak.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: My own internal universe
some gas is ok. I'm a global warming contributor. It's just that it's tons of gas at start up and almost none after it warms up. I don't know if it goes CL or just injector timing vs ECT.