Discussion on heads and cam kits, and the brands
09-13-2015, 12:05 PM
#1
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Discussion on heads and cam kits, and the brands Hey guys so the heads im running currently ain't cutting it. Some ported ls6 heads just seem to be lacking a little bit. A couple of buddies and I were talking the other day about H/C kits.
Vengeance racing kits for a 3.90 bore ls1 Trickflow as cast 220cc.
vs
Trickflow Genx 515hp top end kit. Trickflow Genx Street/Strip heads 215cc
A few points here that some of the guys who claim the Trickflow kit is garbage was, a small cam, and the Vengeance kit was almost a thousand dollars cheaper. With a base price of 2,499$ that would seem true.
Some Trickflow guys were stating people with a FAST 102, with the Genx setup can see 460-470 whp, and that the Vengeance kit is NOT in fact 2,499$ They claim that by the time you add roller rockers, the pushrods, and comparable hardware its actually 100-200 more depending on which parts you select.
Now I have seen from reading that people with both kits can make 460-470whp through m6's, but what kind of attracts me to the Trickflow kit is how complete it is, and nets that same power in some cases that I have read ...on here and ls1.com... Using a smaller, less aggressive cam?
SO what is it about the trickflow kit besides the rockers that a lot of people seem to hate. One argument was money, but I think truth be told both kits are comparable. Im not flaming just trying to educate myself.
Vengeance racing kits for a 3.90 bore ls1 Trickflow as cast 220cc.
vs
Trickflow Genx 515hp top end kit. Trickflow Genx Street/Strip heads 215cc
A few points here that some of the guys who claim the Trickflow kit is garbage was, a small cam, and the Vengeance kit was almost a thousand dollars cheaper. With a base price of 2,499$ that would seem true.
Some Trickflow guys were stating people with a FAST 102, with the Genx setup can see 460-470 whp, and that the Vengeance kit is NOT in fact 2,499$ They claim that by the time you add roller rockers, the pushrods, and comparable hardware its actually 100-200 more depending on which parts you select.
Now I have seen from reading that people with both kits can make 460-470whp through m6's, but what kind of attracts me to the Trickflow kit is how complete it is, and nets that same power in some cases that I have read ...on here and ls1.com... Using a smaller, less aggressive cam?
SO what is it about the trickflow kit besides the rockers that a lot of people seem to hate. One argument was money, but I think truth be told both kits are comparable. Im not flaming just trying to educate myself.
09-14-2015, 12:01 PM
#3
If you get with a guy like Brian Tooley, he can set you up with the TFS As Cast 220cc heads with PM guides (allows you to run stock rockers) which will come setup with his spring kit, a custom cam, pushrods, and a FAST intake/Nick Williams TB setup. That would be my advice to you. Only having one had in the pie is better than trying to mix and match parts in hopes of them working well together.
09-14-2015, 12:14 PM
#4
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Agreed that that would be a solid setup, but I was talking more about specific kits. Marketed kits that come all ready as a package. Specifically one in question is the trickflow kits, my main question is why so many people say its a bad deal when it nets around the same power as most combinations, and costs the same if not less. I dont think the Trickflow kit is mismatched pieces is it? Am I missing something, are the 215 Genx heads junk?
09-14-2015, 12:17 PM
#5
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Out of the two options you are asking about, I, personally, would get the tfs kit.
I like that it is more complete. And I am a big fan of achieving your goals using the smallest possible camshaft.
However, I would be a fool not to back up the alternative mentioned earlier. A call to Mr. Tooley will be money better spent than either of the options you asked about.
I like that it is more complete. And I am a big fan of achieving your goals using the smallest possible camshaft.
However, I would be a fool not to back up the alternative mentioned earlier. A call to Mr. Tooley will be money better spent than either of the options you asked about.
09-14-2015, 12:20 PM
#6
What Brian Tooley can put together for you is a "specific kit". He's far more intelligent and can provide you with a far better setup than the "Trickflow kit". I don't believe anyone will tell you that the TFS 215cc heads are bad. They are great heads, but you need to run roller rockers with them. The TFS 220cc as cast heads are just as good, especially if you have Brian hand port them. Plus, the Trickflow kit is a cookie cutter kit. You need to have a setup that custom tailored to you and what you want to do with the car. There are a lot of things to take into consideration, like compression ratio, size of the cam, etc. You need to be able to speak with someone, give them your budgets and your goals, and allow them to walk you through the process.
09-14-2015, 03:15 PM
#7
What Brian Tooley can put together for you is a "specific kit". He's far more intelligent and can provide you with a far better setup than the "Trickflow kit". I don't believe anyone will tell you that the TFS 215cc heads are bad. They are great heads, but you need to run roller rockers with them. The TFS 220cc as cast heads are just as good, especially if you have Brian hand port them. Plus, the Trickflow kit is a cookie cutter kit. You need to have a setup that custom tailored to you and what you want to do with the car. There are a lot of things to take into consideration, like compression ratio, size of the cam, etc. You need to be able to speak with someone, give them your budgets and your goals, and allow them to walk you through the process.
OP, Brian tooley can supply you with a completer kit. Fully assembled tfs 220cc heads with valves, springs and retainers etc. along with his hand blending + he will supply you 3/8" pushrods with the correct length and if you want he can port match a fast 102 for around $200 and his stage 4 camshaft as well.
This above combination killed everything i ever used in a stock stroke LS1/LS2 and will cost less than $3000 without the intake or $4000 with the intake.
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09-14-2015, 03:44 PM
#8
OP, here is something that Brian e-mailed me a while back:
Hey Nate,
The heads complete with the optional powdered metal guides, optional 50 degree exhaust valve job, our hand blending, our Platinum spring kit and cleaning/assembly is $2099.
We sell the Fast intake for $829 shipped and the port matching is $150 when you purchase the heads and intake together. The Stg IV LS1 cam with these heads and intake has made almost 500 rwhp, but as you know results can vary as well as the dyno being used.
Brian
Hey Nate,
The heads complete with the optional powdered metal guides, optional 50 degree exhaust valve job, our hand blending, our Platinum spring kit and cleaning/assembly is $2099.
We sell the Fast intake for $829 shipped and the port matching is $150 when you purchase the heads and intake together. The Stg IV LS1 cam with these heads and intake has made almost 500 rwhp, but as you know results can vary as well as the dyno being used.
Brian
09-15-2015, 03:35 PM
#10
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Thanks guys for the input. As stated I was just curious as to how many people had experience with the kits and manufacturers out on the market today. I have heard, and read nothing but great things from Brian's work. I was not aware he could piece something so specific. How much difference is there between the Genx 215's and the 220 trickflow heads, as far as ability to later port?
09-16-2015, 08:13 AM
#12
Thanks guys for the input. As stated I was just curious as to how many people had experience with the kits and manufacturers out on the market today. I have heard, and read nothing but great things from Brian's work. I was not aware he could piece something so specific. How much difference is there between the Genx 215's and the 220 trickflow heads, as far as ability to later port?
09-16-2015, 09:13 AM
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Agree on the intake side. Prefer full stainless for the exhaust valve. It's smaller, so the weight is less of a factor anyway, but it has the higher opening pressure to fight
09-16-2015, 07:56 PM
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I see I have been doing so much research on heads in the past few days it makes me sick lol. I think I might reach out to Brian. I am surprised no one mentioned AFR 205's 
I hear them, with a G5X3 cam is a solid combo as well. I think though its almost a never ending path of choices as far as HC goes. So many options just looking for something thats solid. My plans for the GTO may have changed anyway, so I may be doing a Z/28 instead, which is whole new animal.
I hear them, with a G5X3 cam is a solid combo as well. I think though its almost a never ending path of choices as far as HC goes. So many options just looking for something thats solid. My plans for the GTO may have changed anyway, so I may be doing a Z/28 instead, which is whole new animal.
09-17-2015, 12:03 AM
#17
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AFR 205's haven't been produced in five years. Unless you're talking about Tony Mamo's new small bore heads. But those don't technically exist yet.
Having Brian set you straight with some trick flow heads and a proper cam would be hard to argue with. Even if AFR 205's were still on the shelves.
Having Brian set you straight with some trick flow heads and a proper cam would be hard to argue with. Even if AFR 205's were still on the shelves.