thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Finally made arrangements for the dyno next weekend. Before it goes on I will be checking lash again and also plugs.

Will be on the same dyno as I had the car on before where it made 418rwhp converter unlocked on the 230/238 hydraulic cam. I am hoping to see 435-440rwhp now but we'll see soon!

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

Im looking forward to your results. Mine will be going on in a couple weeks to test the dart heads i just put on.
In running a cam motion hydraulic rolller and thinking about doing the llsr when the time comes

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

And that's still on the same ported 799's right?

Be interesting to see if your peak RPM moves as well as the peak number...

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

yes, the only things changed between the last dyno and this one will be:

cam
rocker trunion kit
lifters
pushrods
radiator (went to aluminum)
MAF/air filter are no longer mounted only on a 90* elbow, there is now some pipe between the maf and the 90*
retuned to the same AFR/timing peaks for WOT

the heads were not touched any more other than grinding a couple valves to even out the installed height

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Numbers are in. Car made 438rwhp and ~380rwtq (there was a spike on the graph, he only put the best pull on the chart to compare to the other cam but all the other pulls were 377-380rwtq).

Peak HP moved up as I wanted and it carries out well from there. My driveshaft is not technically up to spinning 7,000rpm in 3rd gear or I would have ran it to the limiter.

This cam did lose a little lower end as suspected, but more than made up for that in peak HP and extra torque through a good portion of the mid-upper end. This is felt on the street as a serious surge in pull above 5,000 rpm which is insanely fun on corner exits.

You will also notice a step increase in hp and tq, this is a fueling thing in the tune. I logged the runs and either the car is a bit lean under 3rd gear load or my wideband is out of calibration but either way the car gets richer and then power increases where that step is. So I'm going to fatten up the fuel a little from there down and also put back a couple degrees of timing I removed.

AFR on the wideband was showing in the 13.5-14.0 range but no timing was being pulled. I suspect being lean might have cost a couple HP. I'll calibrate the wideband and check it again prior to making changes. I want to see it in the 12.8 range.

Next time at the track I'm also going to take a tune with shift points set to 7,000 and see if the car goes faster due to keeping it in the meat of the curve longer. In excellent weather I think the car should go 11.0-11.15 (previous best of 11.33 on this cam but worse tune and headwind).

I'll get a better scan of the sheet tomorrow:

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Very nice numbers! Especially through an unlocked auto. I'm assuming you're stalled as well. And on mildly ported stock heads!

Peak HP around 6400? How well you think it would carry if you spin all the way out?

Any future mods planned?

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

I wouldn't call the heads mildly ported. They used to be, but when I did the ls2 swap I sent them back to my buddy and he worked them over pretty good. They flowed 306cfm on a 4.050" bore plate and he did a full port on the exhaust side too but I don't recall the flow numbers. Regardless they are the same exact heads with the exact same port work between these 2 graphs.

I have taken it to 7000rpm on the street a lot and it still feels strong as hell. I bet it could be shifted at 7200 or higher.

I don't have any plans set in stone. I am getting a 3-4 kPa drop in MAP readings above 6000 so I might try a speed density tune if I can do one myself. If that doesn't clear it up I might consider a Fast 102 upgrade. But on the fence. Small potatoes really...the car is already not track legal due to no roll bar...if it goes 10s they will probably drop the hammer on letting me slide. But I'm going to try

I might also try some roller rockers later along with stiffer pushrods and tighten up hot lash. Could be good for a few more HP. Speaking of which I did make sure the car was hot as I could get it prior to the runs so ensure I was at complete hot lash. A cooler engine might have made a little more because of less duration loss from heat expansion.

Yes I do have a Yank SS3600 which IIRC slips about 6%. I'd have to look at the log to get a solid number.

I'm pleased with it for sure. Did exactly what I expected.




I have now put several thousand miles on the car and checked lash 3 times and it's remained where I set it originally to within .001". These things really are low maintenance. Kip said if it hasn't loosened up by this point lash should be good for the life of the springs. I plan to run it this year and check valvesprings over winter and replace if necessary.

Happy camper here. If anyone has any further questions just post here and I will answer to the best of my ability.

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

What air filter do you have? My 85 mm maf was not a restrictions on mine at 460 rwhp,speed density was worth 2hp for me so i chose to stay maf.
Nice gain

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

The filter is a huge cone filter from the ebay CAI kits for trucks. I have pulled the filter at the track and the car actually goes slower (the filter has a velocity stack built into the base).

I prefer to stay MAF but I just like to experiment and tinker.

I'd love to do some more of the combo optimization a few guys on this site talk about but they are very secretive about it. It's hard enough to even get a mod list much less any little tricks...so I try what I can think of on my own.

I know I'm leaving power on the table with my driveshaft for sure as it's a seriously heavy bastard made from thick wall chromoly steel and is 3.5" diameter and 56" long. An aluminum piece would likely free up a few HP for sure. The 12 bolt also eats some and it has Moser axles to boot for even more rotating weight.

AINT SKEERED

iTrader: (2)

I have a pst aluminum drive shaft bit moser 12 bolt with 33 spline axles. I know heavy.lol
I'm like you, I'm not skeered to try things.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Better scan of the graph. Looked at the logs and it was lean...pretty bad lean below 5600 rpm. I thought it was a fouled sensor at first but now I have my doubts. I retuned for now and had to add about 15% fuel from 4000-5600rpm and about 3% above that. This explains the little step in the graph and would minimize the lower end losses.

I'll do some more fine tuning at the track, hoping to get back the weekend after next.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Did make it back to the track and ran several 11.50s @ 117 in worse air...the car also wouldn't 60ft. It was dead hooking and doing a ~1.70

During my logs I noticed the car was still running lean up to the same RPM as on the dyno. Tried adding more fuel and it was unchanged. Finally found a cell which was "Disable PE delay RPM" which was set to 5500rpm. PE delay was set to 0 but for some reason it appears it was still not allowing the car to go into PE mode and richen up. I loaded a new tune just in time for them to close the lanes. I am fairly certain getting the fuel rich would have built a good bit more torque which would have dropped the 60ft back down and let the car run a lot harder through first and the bottom of 2nd.

Tried going back to the track last Friday and after driving all the way to Joplin got word they were calling it off due to rain.

The good news is this meant I got a decent highway fuel mileage figure for the trip (90% highway at 80mph and 10% in traffic or town) over the course of 190miles. Car did 19.6 mpg. This is very close to what it did before so the larger cam doesn't seem to have hurt it much.


Oh and I've been driving the car ~200 miles every week, a lot of that being spirited driving and still haven't had to touch the lash.

joecar

Thunder, post your tune and log(s), or email them to me.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

I don't have them on my office computer, I'll try to remember tonight.

The more I think about I am 90% sure I had that cell switched to "3600 rpm" in the past, but when my tune file became corrupted and I went back to the oldest tune I had it might have been reverted. It's also possible the forum member here who was helping me work on the base tune reverted it.

I would still expect if the PE delay cell was set to "0 seconds" that it would be irrelevant but I might be mistaken on that.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Depending on the year computer there are settings for minimum torque, MAP, etc. if you have a setting for TQ, drop it to zero. Set MAP to something absurd like 15. Be in the same spot as the RPM delay. Set everything really low so the only thing needed to trigger it is the throttle position vs RPM.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

I'll double check it all.

Other than that it was running pretty well. DA was up to 1800ft and it still hit nearly 118mph even with the tune the way it is.

I think it's likely to see 119-120mph this fall with good air and a corrected tune.

Johnnystock

iTrader: (6)

Very nice thread and info. Car is rolling!! My next setup is a badass LL cam

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Just saw a video on HotRod's youtube channel where they did a similar comparison between a hydraulic and solid roller on a mild 454. They kept the duration and LSA nearly identical but added more lift with the solid. From the sound of it they were using a traditional solid and not a low lash.

Either way their results on the big block were similar to mine, from ~4,000 rpm up the solid pulled away and on the top it carried past peak a lot stronger. At 6,800rpm the solid was still holding nearly 100hp over the hydraulic which had fallen off pretty hard.

The disheartening part of the video was the closing comments though where they began talking about the solid needing constant maintenance to lash, needing higher pressure springs, and being noisier.

Really wish they had done the test with a LLSR so people could see it's really the best of both worlds.



As a further update mine is still running strong as ever, no more noise, and still haven't had to touch the lash. Been getting a lot of rain so it hasn't been driven a ton since my last update but it did make 2 more 3.5 hour trips. Fuel mileage still hangs on the low side of what it was averaging before the swap.

My dad is an old school hot rodder and the trip was to see him and attend a big car show. He was definitely shocked to hear how quiet the top end was knowing it had a solid in it.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

I've been absent from the car scene for a good bit. Needed a break and got back focused on guitar and music for a while. Never even made it back to the track...was about to but then the 4l60e had a servo piston lock and try to hold the band on the drum which smoked the **** out of band/drum and put enough heat in the trans to toast some of the other clutches.

Spent my fall vacation rebuilding the 4l60e so I will be ready to hit things hard in the spring.

The good news is that engine wise the combo has held solid with no issues or maintenance needed. I lost some of my notes during a garage clean out but I'd say this cam setup has around 6,000 miles on it give or take. Most of that being abusive joy ride outing miles. I spend a lot of time on backroads letting this thing hold 5,000+ rpm and then blasting out of corners to redline.

Once things settle down after the holidays (or maybe even this weekend if nothing comes up) I plan to pull the covers and check both cold and hot lash and give things a more thorough inspection as far as valve tips and pushrods and what not. I'll snap pics of whatever I find and we will continue this experiment in February when the track opens.

If all goes to plan I'd like to do another baseline with just the tune corrections then begin fine tuning some other aspects of the car and see if it has 10 seconds in it (if they don't kick me out for not having a roll bar).

joecar

Good to hear your LLSR is still good

Too bad about your trans

( I'm interested in closeup pics of trans components killed by your servo hangup, you can email me if you want )