Taking my current build up a notch - Advice??
07-27-2017, 02:18 PM
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Taking my current build up a notch - Advice?? Hi all!
Car is currently performing great! Runs amazing and everything works really well at the track. But its time to take this build up a notch. The car only is driven at the track and to and from Mexico ( about 15 mins ).
I am currently tuning the car on HPTuners. I am mixing e85 at about 33%.
Okay heres the current build
2002 Z28
ENGINE
Stock bottom end LS1
Aeromotive 450
42lb injectors
Stock 241
Comp Cams 216/220 with .532 lift
1.85 SLP rocker arms
FAST 92/92
All lower pulley
high volume oil pump
1 7/8 headers with cutouts
NANO Nitrogen assisted Nitrous plate kit - 150 shot
Transmission and Rear
Built 60e
3600 FTI stall
Moser 9 with 3.55's and a spool
Bigs and Littles with 275 50 15 Hoosier out back
Suspension and Chassis
8 point Chromoly cage
Umi Torque arm w relocation
Umi subframe connectors
Umi panhard
umi lower control arm relocations
competition engineering 3 way shocks
Okay here are the current upgrades I plan on doing for the new build:
New Upgrades
BTR Stage 3 Cam and kit (w stock ratio rocker)
Johnson 2110 Lifters
CRS LS1 Cryo Treated Rocker arms stock ratio
Siemens Deka 80lb Injectors (to go full e85)
243 heads (debating prc 2.5 vs stockers)
Upper and lower front control arms
Do you guys have any input on the upgrades for my current build? Better options for the parts ive selected? Anything else you would add along with these modifications? PRC vs stock 243 gains at the track?
I already have the BTR cam kit but I'm ready to pull the trigger on the rest.
Thanks in advance for any input!!!!!
Car is currently performing great! Runs amazing and everything works really well at the track. But its time to take this build up a notch. The car only is driven at the track and to and from Mexico ( about 15 mins ).
I am currently tuning the car on HPTuners. I am mixing e85 at about 33%.
Okay heres the current build
2002 Z28
ENGINE
Stock bottom end LS1
Aeromotive 450
42lb injectors
Stock 241
Comp Cams 216/220 with .532 lift
1.85 SLP rocker arms
FAST 92/92
All lower pulley
high volume oil pump
1 7/8 headers with cutouts
NANO Nitrogen assisted Nitrous plate kit - 150 shot
Transmission and Rear
Built 60e
3600 FTI stall
Moser 9 with 3.55's and a spool
Bigs and Littles with 275 50 15 Hoosier out back
Suspension and Chassis
8 point Chromoly cage
Umi Torque arm w relocation
Umi subframe connectors
Umi panhard
umi lower control arm relocations
competition engineering 3 way shocks
Okay here are the current upgrades I plan on doing for the new build:
New Upgrades
BTR Stage 3 Cam and kit (w stock ratio rocker)
Johnson 2110 Lifters
CRS LS1 Cryo Treated Rocker arms stock ratio
Siemens Deka 80lb Injectors (to go full e85)
243 heads (debating prc 2.5 vs stockers)
Upper and lower front control arms
Do you guys have any input on the upgrades for my current build? Better options for the parts ive selected? Anything else you would add along with these modifications? PRC vs stock 243 gains at the track?
I already have the BTR cam kit but I'm ready to pull the trigger on the rest.
Thanks in advance for any input!!!!!
07-27-2017, 02:23 PM
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By the time you get the 243's worked over, you're in TFS as-cast territory. For just a little more, you can get those TFS 220 done by Mamo. I think you'll be in better shape overall if you go that route. I'd also suggest opening up your pushrod holes and running 3/8" pushrods to avoid flexion. You don't mention springs, but I'm guessing BTR Dual platinum.
Other than that, I think it's a solid build
Other than that, I think it's a solid build
07-27-2017, 02:26 PM
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With that much cam, I would go the 2.5 porting job so the heads will flow enough at the lift you will have.
07-27-2017, 02:27 PM
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MMS 223 Sportsman Heads,
Bushing Kit for stock rockers, Straub, CHE,etc
Agree with Darth on the 3/8" pushrods.
Bushing Kit for stock rockers, Straub, CHE,etc
Agree with Darth on the 3/8" pushrods.
Last edited by NAVYBLUE210; 07-28-2017 at 05:15 PM.
07-28-2017, 02:42 AM
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By the time you get the 243's worked over, you're in TFS as-cast territory. For just a little more, you can get those TFS 220 done by Mamo. I think you'll be in better shape overall if you go that route. I'd also suggest opening up your pushrod holes and running 3/8" pushrods to avoid flexion. You don't mention springs, but I'm guessing BTR Dual platinum.
Other than that, I think it's a solid build
Other than that, I think it's a solid build
Hmmm... ive been studying the geometry of the valve train recently before I purchase lifters and rockers. Never considered the 3/8ths pushrod. Thanks!
I am lost on head selection. Ive taken a look at options from As cast all the way down to stock 243s. I don't want to sink money into a head that could ultimately hurt my gains on stock cubes. I know its vital to match all aspects of your engine build to the characteristics of the heads. Anyone point me in the right direction of an article I can educate myself on so that I know I make the right decision?
07-28-2017, 07:24 AM
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Yes I have the btr duals.
Hmmm... ive been studying the geometry of the valve train recently before I purchase lifters and rockers. Never considered the 3/8ths pushrod. Thanks!
I am lost on head selection. Ive taken a look at options from As cast all the way down to stock 243s. I don't want to sink money into a head that could ultimately hurt my gains on stock cubes. I know its vital to match all aspects of your engine build to the characteristics of the heads. Anyone point me in the right direction of an article I can educate myself on so that I know I make the right decision?
Hmmm... ive been studying the geometry of the valve train recently before I purchase lifters and rockers. Never considered the 3/8ths pushrod. Thanks!
I am lost on head selection. Ive taken a look at options from As cast all the way down to stock 243s. I don't want to sink money into a head that could ultimately hurt my gains on stock cubes. I know its vital to match all aspects of your engine build to the characteristics of the heads. Anyone point me in the right direction of an article I can educate myself on so that I know I make the right decision?
Up there on the top tier with the Mamo 220 is the Mast 240 small bore rectangle heads and the trick flow 220 heads. Mamo's 223 heads are basically TFS 220 that he has worked over himself, and they are quite good. There's the AFR 215, which are also exceptional. You can google "LS1tech mamo 223" and get a few threads on how well they've done. There are others I'm sure on this level, but those are the ones you tend to see most often. If you're wanting 480+ rear wheel HP and some semblance of being streetable, you probably need to be in the top tier.
After that, you step down to some of the other aftermarket castings and higher end worked over 243 heads. This is where you get the PRC 225, AI 226, Livernois, TSP, and a host of others that have done quite well on factory 243 castings and opening up the ports. Again, you'll find you can google any of those options with "LS1Tech" in the search window, and you'll find plenty of threads on how they have done. Most of these options have plenty of builds in the 450-480 HP range, depending on cam selection, intake, exhaust, etc.
if you're thinking more like 420-450, you can either do great heads with a mild cam or cheaper heads with a larger cam and hit your goals. Most people end up with cheaper heads and a larger cam due to budget, which is understandable. Only difference is the heads are maxed out sooner. Also, you're a stalled auto vs my T56, so you'll dyno lower, but go faster.
Given the cam you have selected and the way your build looks to be going, if it were my car I would take a hard look at the budget and consider the Mast 240 small bores, Mamo 220's, or TFS220/Mamo223. Personally, I think the Mamo 223 is kind of the sweet spot for price/performance - you start paying a lot more for a little benefit or you pay a little less but start losing more
I hope all that helps. Unfortunately, there aren't that many hot rod articles out there on the 5.7 with the more recent heads, because it's kind of old news, so you pretty much have to use the build threads. Best of luck
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07-28-2017, 08:10 AM
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I'd go with the btr cam you have and some good pushrods, manton 11/32 are very nice. Up your nitrous shot to 175-200 and go with 28" tall tires. Will help on the streets of Mexico. I'd take the money you were gonna spend on heads and use it for more lightweight components especially in the front of the car (help a lot in Mexico). K-member, bumper supports, battery to back, a-arms drop a bit, fiberglass hood etc etc
07-28-2017, 04:29 PM
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I'll say this - in my opinion, the mamo 220 head is probably the best head for the 5.7 that you can get. You can click the link in my signature to see how they do (It's quite a long thread, but the final numbers are 519/436 rear wheel through a T56 and 9-inch with 4.11 gears and 10.7@129 on 35xx lbs RW with a bad driver). Pretty much a no-compromise head design. Highest price point, also. Surprise!
Up there on the top tier with the Mamo 220 is the Mast 240 small bore rectangle heads and the trick flow 220 heads. Mamo's 223 heads are basically TFS 220 that he has worked over himself, and they are quite good. There's the AFR 215, which are also exceptional. You can google "LS1tech mamo 223" and get a few threads on how well they've done. There are others I'm sure on this level, but those are the ones you tend to see most often. If you're wanting 480+ rear wheel HP and some semblance of being streetable, you probably need to be in the top tier.
After that, you step down to some of the other aftermarket castings and higher end worked over 243 heads. This is where you get the PRC 225, AI 226, Livernois, TSP, and a host of others that have done quite well on factory 243 castings and opening up the ports. Again, you'll find you can google any of those options with "LS1Tech" in the search window, and you'll find plenty of threads on how they have done. Most of these options have plenty of builds in the 450-480 HP range, depending on cam selection, intake, exhaust, etc.
if you're thinking more like 420-450, you can either do great heads with a mild cam or cheaper heads with a larger cam and hit your goals. Most people end up with cheaper heads and a larger cam due to budget, which is understandable. Only difference is the heads are maxed out sooner. Also, you're a stalled auto vs my T56, so you'll dyno lower, but go faster.
Given the cam you have selected and the way your build looks to be going, if it were my car I would take a hard look at the budget and consider the Mast 240 small bores, Mamo 220's, or TFS220/Mamo223. Personally, I think the Mamo 223 is kind of the sweet spot for price/performance - you start paying a lot more for a little benefit or you pay a little less but start losing more
I hope all that helps. Unfortunately, there aren't that many hot rod articles out there on the 5.7 with the more recent heads, because it's kind of old news, so you pretty much have to use the build threads. Best of luck
Up there on the top tier with the Mamo 220 is the Mast 240 small bore rectangle heads and the trick flow 220 heads. Mamo's 223 heads are basically TFS 220 that he has worked over himself, and they are quite good. There's the AFR 215, which are also exceptional. You can google "LS1tech mamo 223" and get a few threads on how well they've done. There are others I'm sure on this level, but those are the ones you tend to see most often. If you're wanting 480+ rear wheel HP and some semblance of being streetable, you probably need to be in the top tier.
After that, you step down to some of the other aftermarket castings and higher end worked over 243 heads. This is where you get the PRC 225, AI 226, Livernois, TSP, and a host of others that have done quite well on factory 243 castings and opening up the ports. Again, you'll find you can google any of those options with "LS1Tech" in the search window, and you'll find plenty of threads on how they have done. Most of these options have plenty of builds in the 450-480 HP range, depending on cam selection, intake, exhaust, etc.
if you're thinking more like 420-450, you can either do great heads with a mild cam or cheaper heads with a larger cam and hit your goals. Most people end up with cheaper heads and a larger cam due to budget, which is understandable. Only difference is the heads are maxed out sooner. Also, you're a stalled auto vs my T56, so you'll dyno lower, but go faster.
Given the cam you have selected and the way your build looks to be going, if it were my car I would take a hard look at the budget and consider the Mast 240 small bores, Mamo 220's, or TFS220/Mamo223. Personally, I think the Mamo 223 is kind of the sweet spot for price/performance - you start paying a lot more for a little benefit or you pay a little less but start losing more
I hope all that helps. Unfortunately, there aren't that many hot rod articles out there on the 5.7 with the more recent heads, because it's kind of old news, so you pretty much have to use the build threads. Best of luck
I read the initial thread when the 223's were released. Those look promising! I just hope its not too much air flow for my set up. I will most likely call Mamo on Monday and just have a chat about the heads and my set up. I really do appreciate the advice from someone with real world experience hands on experience with the 220s. Ive looked through multiple dyno graphs today from people with different head set ups. Just to see if I noticed different characteristics from the different designs. What I gathered though, is there are way too many different variables including tunes and dynos for me to get any conclusive info from it.
I'd go with the btr cam you have and some good pushrods, manton 11/32 are very nice. Up your nitrous shot to 175-200 and go with 28" tall tires. Will help on the streets of Mexico. I'd take the money you were gonna spend on heads and use it for more lightweight components especially in the front of the car (help a lot in Mexico). K-member, bumper supports, battery to back, a-arms drop a bit, fiberglass hood etc etc
Once I get the new build dialed in and performing right on the track, ill take it up to 200. Ive removed a small amount of weight from the front end (all ac components, fiberglass hood and the skinnies) My next step was going to be control arms for weight savings and the added benefits they give the geometry of the from suspension. With the kmember, a arms, and bumper supports, how much weight do you think I can shave?
I've stashed a pretty good amount of cash back for this wave of upgrades, so id loike to purchase everything at once and install at once.
07-28-2017, 06:08 PM
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Once I get the new build dialed in and performing right on the track, ill take it up to 200. Ive removed a small amount of weight from the front end (all ac components, fiberglass hood and the skinnies) My next step was going to be control arms for weight savings and the added benefits they give the geometry of the from suspension. With the kmember, a arms, and bumper supports, how much weight do you think I can shave?
I've stashed a pretty good amount of cash back for this wave of upgrades, so id loike to purchase everything at once and install at once.[/QUOTE]
I think the k member is around 30-40lbs, a arms are like 8lbs a side and bumper support is 20. Move the 30-40lb battery to the back. Hey if you can afford heads that's cool go with them too but you can go 9's no problem on a 200 shot with stock heads with some weight reduction and good suspension
For Mexico action I would go weight reduction and suspension over heads if I had to pick one.
I've stashed a pretty good amount of cash back for this wave of upgrades, so id loike to purchase everything at once and install at once.[/QUOTE]
I think the k member is around 30-40lbs, a arms are like 8lbs a side and bumper support is 20. Move the 30-40lb battery to the back. Hey if you can afford heads that's cool go with them too but you can go 9's no problem on a 200 shot with stock heads with some weight reduction and good suspension
For Mexico action I would go weight reduction and suspension over heads if I had to pick one.
08-02-2017, 10:09 PM
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ill try to make this short. first build 243 milled port polished heads tv 2 cam 10.9cr... pat g tuned 438/405.... second build tony mamo 223 heads milled 56cc. 11.4 cr. custom spec cam. 235/240 .620/.615 113+3. made 432/409. now I also changed from dual 3" pipe dumped to 2.5" duals all the way out the back. also have a ls6 intake. when pat g tuned the car he said the dyno has been updated and reads 5% less than it use to on numbers as well as my car is not getting enough air. with a fast intake and some 1 7/8 headers with 3" duals or even 4" single I have no doubt it will be over 450 maybe even closer to 480... with the 223 heads I went ahead and did the yella terra rockers, manton push rods, Johnson lifters. I already have scat rods and mauhle pistons.... with the right air in and out I believe the 223 heads will really shine!