H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##) - Page 2 - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

Notices
Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)

 
Old 05-27-2017, 01:40 PM
  #21  
On The Tree
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 111
Default

When I talked to Tony about getting a top end speccd by him using his 223s the rwhp number he gave me was pretty close to what actuals came in at. I went with a more optomized set up and did not get 500 RWHP but the car runs great given the mild cam.

Good results by the way. Those corvettes sound nice, kind of wished my firebird was a corvette.
BBWS6 is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 08:33 PM
  #22  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (21)
 
regorih383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pasadena Tx,
Posts: 1,702
Default


For the HD quality visit my FB page : C.O.P Tuning Solutions
regorih383 is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 09:44 PM
  #23  
LS1Tech Sponsor
 
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 570
Default

Originally Posted by jerry306 View Post
IM not disappointed guys, im just not that impressed with the #'s and i would of thought they would been a little higher, but by no means do i think this setup is't great. Very fun to drive and cruise around town, getting anything over 450rwhp out of these Ls small blocks is awesome specially with such a moderate cam...
Jerry,

Your car made exactly what it should have made and it has a beautiful power and torque curve.

As others here have stated your numbers are very solid and you should be impressed....the only reason your disappointed is because you went into this with unrealistic expectations and its the exact reason I decided to take the time to post earlier. My attempt to try and politely (and professionally) alert you to the fact what you were hoping for wasn't in the realm of reality on an honest dyno and have you better prepared for the results I felt were more realistic. Hopes and dreams wont get it done guys....achieving 500 with a stock 346 requires you to hit and optimize everything you can to help get you there and as I mentioned in my last post is that much more difficult with a small cam. Guys have spent alot more money than you with bigger cams and not even made what you have today

Speaking of that (small cams), a car that makes this much power with a cam in the 220's is a blast to drive....very explosive and responsive at practically any RPM....and still has a huge top end pull

When your ready to really get closer to 500 RWHP you can upgrade and purchase the following

Electric Water pump
Lightweight clutch assembly
Yella Terra roller rockers
Johnson short travel lifters
Thicker/larger diameter pushrods (more rigid)
And have me port your 102 FAST or step into a ported MSD instead

Without upgrading the cam would all that get you there?? On the same dyno maybe at best but my guess is you would be in the mid 490's (actually with the ported MSD you could crack 500 with the laundry list I posted above all included).

You have a very solid foundation to build on....now it's time to go get all the nickel and dimes you left on the table your first go around if your truly intent on pushing this combination further but you have plenty of time to make that happen. For now you can enjoy a car that's extremely fast and fun to drive as well without the penalties typically associated with larger cams and smallish displacement engines (soggy bottom ends and poor low/midrange responsiveness).



Cheers,
Tony
__________________


www.mamomotorsports.com

[email protected]

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!

Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 05-27-2017 at 10:04 PM.
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 10:05 PM
  #24  
TECH Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Posts: 1,458
Default

Originally Posted by regorih383 View Post
Wow!!!! Jaw dropped! @ Tony Mamo

I'll hold my final thoughts till after the dyno day.
Waiting on final thoughts.
NAVYBLUE210 is online now  
Old 05-28-2017, 12:07 AM
  #25  
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Default

Originally Posted by NAVYBLUE210 View Post
Waiting on final thoughts.
93Rat is offline  
Old 05-28-2017, 12:44 AM
  #26  
11 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
 
scotty2000ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 2,064
Default

What's next?
scotty2000ss is offline  
Old 05-28-2017, 02:28 AM
  #27  
TECH Enthusiast
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 536
Default

You landed right where you should have
FRiCK is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 01:07 PM
  #28  
TECH Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Posts: 1,458
Default

Jerry
466 RWHP @ 6300 RPM & 422 lb ft @ 4800 RPM is excellent with a
small/medium sized cam, drivability and throttle response must be
insane. Job well done!
NAVYBLUE210 is online now  
Old 05-29-2017, 09:23 PM
  #29  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (4)
 
SnIpEz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Brazoria County, TX
Posts: 935
Default

When I looked at the first post I assumed OP would be right in the territory he ended up in, more or less, but I was a bit surprised to see his tuner talking about hitting 500 or *more* to the wheels with it.

OP, did you not talk to Tony about power goals in mind beforehand? How did this not come up for him to explain sooner? Either ways, 466rwhp is a VERY impressive number with a setup like that, I honestly cannot see how you could be disappointed with those numbers. Waiting on the tuner's final thoughts.
SnIpEz is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 10:38 PM
  #30  
11 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
jerry306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 148
Default

Originally Posted by scotty2000ss View Post
What's next?
Ill be in the search for a SuperCharger or might put 150 shot for mean while....
jerry306 is offline  
Old 05-30-2017, 12:51 AM
  #31  
LS1Tech Sponsor
 
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 570
Default

Originally Posted by SnIpEz View Post
When I looked at the first post I assumed OP would be right in the territory he ended up in, more or less, but I was a bit surprised to see his tuner talking about hitting 500 or *more* to the wheels with it.

OP, did you not talk to Tony about power goals in mind beforehand? How did this not come up for him to explain sooner? Either ways, 466rwhp is a VERY impressive number with a setup like that, I honestly cannot see how you could be disappointed with those numbers. Waiting on the tuner's final thoughts.
I think you guys already realize that a "500" number never came from me....LOL

To be honest I was actually a bit curious how this deal transpired and looked back in my email history about the discussions we had etc. Understand this goes back to September of last year so it wasn't something I could easily remember. In fact it turns out the OP had initially grabbed a set of used AFR 205 heads and I had shared with him all the upsides of going with my new MMS 223 heads (just the peace of mind of getting something new is worth alot here, nevermind the fact I handled all the R&D on the 223 heads over a decade later). This combo wouldn't have laid down 466 with a brand new AFR 205 head.....my new 223 head is alot stouter.....over 20 CFM stronger on the intake and similar exhaust flow.

I also read a few back and forth emails about Jerry sending me a FAST 102 to port (which I would have recommended) but that never materialized. Honestly it was more a bang for the buck type of build looking things over....never a discussion of the false hopes that someone filled his head with that were never going to happen. Trust me guys, I would have sobered him up then if I had an inkling he was looking for that type of thing (500 ish). To be honest most people that have dealt with me know I handle my affairs just the opposite....I prefer to under promise and over deliver....I never throw big numbers around to try and help sell product.

Originally Posted by jerry306 View Post
Ill be in the search for a SuperCharger or might put 150 shot for mean while....
You wont be able to boost the car much with the higher static compression we set the car up to run better N/A.....with OEM pistons and 11.5 to 1 SCR I would steer clear of boost. NOS in reasonable amounts (like a hundred shot) is not out of the question but even that would dictate your mixing fuel to bump the octane some and install a small stand alone fuel system to use in conjunction with a wet shot set-up which has high octane race fuel in the stand alone cell.....otherwise you will end up losing the top ring land of one of your pistons and than have it mashed into your new heads by the battering piston underneath that just got compromised. Not a very good outcome....it can destroy a head if a big piece breaks off....make it un-repairable. If you do decide to spray it include all the electronic safety nets you can and run a stand alone fuel cell....and even that just gives you a better chance of the engine living. Nitrous with OEM cast pistons on a combination already making close to 550 at the flywheel is really a ticking time bomb of sorts. No more than a hundred shot and the stand alone fuel cell with race gas will give you a reasonable chance of hopefully enjoying it for awhile.



-Tony
__________________


www.mamomotorsports.com

[email protected]

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!

Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 05-30-2017 at 01:06 AM.
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 03:51 PM
  #32  
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Mcleansville, NC
Posts: 576
Default

What did you expect with sub 230 intake lobe?
Martin Smallwood is offline  
Old 06-01-2017, 04:23 PM
  #33  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (27)
 
Rise of the Phoenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Jefferson City, MO
Posts: 9,729
Default

Take the sum-bitch to a dyno that's puts out more than Kim Kardashian after three lines of coke and a bottle of wine and boom, you've got your magical number. Sounds like a "happy ending" to me.
Rise of the Phoenix is offline  
Old 06-02-2017, 06:36 AM
  #34  
TECH Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SV, AZ
Posts: 414
Default

Originally Posted by Martin Smallwood View Post
What did you expect with sub 230 intake lobe?
A miracle. Is that too much to ask?
eaglegoat is offline  
Old 06-02-2017, 11:51 AM
  #35  
TECH Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Central Cal.
Posts: 9,053
Default

Originally Posted by eaglegoat View Post
A miracle. Is that too much to ask?
Not around here. Happens all the time!
G Atsma is online now  
Old 06-02-2017, 01:44 PM
  #36  
TECH Fanatic
 
gagliano7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Monroe,NY
Posts: 1,937
Default

I think he has the 500 # in his head but i bet if he powershifted first to second at 6800 rpms it would change his thought. That thing seems like it would be fun as hell to drive.
gagliano7 is offline  
Old 06-03-2017, 09:10 PM
  #37  
LS1Tech Sponsor
 
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 570
Default

This thread was kind of entertaining (and had good tech for others to learn from) but it has such an an "offbeat" feel to it....LOL

I think the community was/is more interested than the folks actually involved....LOL

Either way it was a great result for a modest investment....this wasn't a budget build but it wasn't far from it and the final numbers and the power curve are really impressive all things considered.

My new 223's have been killin it guys....just a fantastic head for the money. All of my customers that have ran this head have been super stoked with the results and this build is just another good example of their potential. I think you could make a legit 500 with these heads in an optimal build with a 346 and that was never in the cards when I was working on this program. I just wanted to offer a really good value head for the money....something that a guy looking at budget heads could justify spending a little more on....I had no idea they would give my pricier (full CNC) MMS 220 head a run for their money in actual performance.

Its one of the few products I have designed that exceeded my expectations on the flowbench (I have a pretty good idea where stuff is going to land after doing this 20 years), but the big surprise is how well they actually perform out in the real world!

Good stuff!!



-Tony
__________________


www.mamomotorsports.com

[email protected]

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports is offline  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:26 AM
  #38  
TECH Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SV, AZ
Posts: 414
Default

Originally Posted by Tony Mamo View Post
This thread was kind of entertaining (and had good tech for others to learn from) but it has such an an "offbeat" feel to it....LOL

I think the community was/is more interested than the folks actually involved....LOL

Either way it was a great result for a modest investment....this wasn't a budget build but it wasn't far from it and the final numbers and the power curve are really impressive all things considered.

My new 223's have been killin it guys....just a fantastic head for the money. All of my customers that have ran this head have been super stoked with the results and this build is just another good example of their potential. I think you could make a legit 500 with these heads in an optimal build with a 346 and that was never in the cards when I was working on this program. I just wanted to offer a really good value head for the money....something that a guy looking at budget heads could justify spending a little more on....I had no idea they would give my pricier (full CNC) MMS 220 head a run for their money in actual performance.

Its one of the few products I have designed that exceeded my expectations on the flowbench (I have a pretty good idea where stuff is going to land after doing this 20 years), but the big surprise is how well they actually perform out in the real world!

Good stuff!!



-Tony
From what I gather on these heads unless you're doing a bare bones cheap build there is no reason not to pick these heads up. To be within a few hundred dollars of well ported 243 heads and be that much better is amazing.
​​​​​
eaglegoat is offline  
Old 06-04-2017, 01:46 AM
  #39  
10 Second Club
 
big hammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: over dere
Posts: 3,097
Default

A buddy made around 460+ with gmpp ls6 heads and ls6 intake years ago
big hammer is offline  
Old 06-04-2017, 02:27 AM
  #40  
TECH Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
Posts: 1,458
Default

How big was that cam?
NAVYBLUE210 is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)


About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: