H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##) - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

Notices
Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)

Old 05-22-2017, 03:49 PM
  #1  
11 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
jerry306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 148
Default H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)

I am running MMS 223 heads and custom cam spec by Tony Mamo,stock short block, on 2000 FRC corvette, M6 with full exhaust, no cats.

Here is the specs:
MMS 223 Heads milled to 60cc, hand finished by MamoMotorsports
Custom cam 227/232 on 113 with .613/.610 lift
stock Rockers with Trunion kit upgrade
Ls7 Lifters
Melling high pressure oil pump
Ls2 water pump (did not have to grind on TB or water pump with this setup)
Fast 102 Intake
NW 102 TB
Ls2 fuel rails
52lbs injectors
255 fuel pump
Lg SuperPro 1 7/8 Long tube headers, X pipe no cats, Borla Stinger Catback
Speed Density Tune (no MAF) to avoid restriction on the CAI
Monster stage 3 clutch with steel flywheel

My goal is to get as close to 500rwhp as possible...
I should be getting to the Dyno sometime this week if possible, and have some results....
I want to give thanks to my good friend
@Regorih383 from C.O.P Tuning Solutions for Tuning the car..

Last edited by jerry306; 05-26-2017 at 11:49 PM.
jerry306 is offline  
Old 05-22-2017, 03:59 PM
  #2  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
HCI2000SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Howell & Fenton MI
Posts: 11,159
Default

Look forward to the results! Sounds like a great setup
HCI2000SS is offline  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:14 PM
  #3  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (21)
 
regorih383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pasadena Tx,
Posts: 1,702
Default

Finally got around to tune the C5 with a speed density tune and do street tuning on the car.

For those wondering why we decided to go with the speed density tune it was to eliminate any restriction in the intake path. By removing the mass air we are removing a big restriction on the intake path and given this combo best opportunity to make power and get as close to or over 500rwhp from this LS1.

Enjoy the vid from last night.


For the High Definition vid go to my Facebook page to view it.
Facebooks page name is C.O.P Tuning Solutions
regorih383 is offline  
Old 05-22-2017, 04:41 PM
  #4  
11 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
jerry306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 148
Default youtube vid

After the H/C install, still did not have the intake/TB

Last edited by jerry306; 05-22-2017 at 05:17 PM. Reason: none
jerry306 is offline  
Old 05-22-2017, 05:16 PM
  #5  
11 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
jerry306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 148
Default parts

Attached Thumbnails H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)-img_1187.jpg   H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)-img_1186.jpg   H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)-img_1420.jpg   H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)-img_1419.jpg   H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)-img_1433.jpg  

jerry306 is offline  
Old 05-22-2017, 08:43 PM
  #6  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (3)
 
HappySalesman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 847
Default

Very interested in this. I'm doing a very similar build, (cams are almost the exact same lol) but with mamos 220s. Interested to see what kind of power differences we make.
HappySalesman is offline  
Old 05-22-2017, 09:05 PM
  #7  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
 
Darth_V8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 6,536
Default

I'm interested as well. My understanding is the intakes on both heads will flow virtually identical butbthe exhaust on the 220 is better
Darth_V8r is offline  
Old 05-23-2017, 03:06 AM
  #8  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (3)
 
HappySalesman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 847
Default

At the same time, the exhaust system in a vette is better, so I wonder if the port difference will be offset by the exhaust difference?
HappySalesman is offline  
Old 05-23-2017, 12:49 PM
  #9  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
 
Darth_V8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 6,536
Default

That's s good question. I don't know, but definitely the better downstream exhaust has to help the flow atvthe port. Enough to offset it, possibly overtake it? Interesting...
Darth_V8r is offline  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:31 PM
  #10  
LS1Tech Sponsor
 
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 564
Default

Not to rain on the OP's parade (a parade I'm walking and attending myself!), on paper this is not a recipe for a 500 WHP build and expecting close to that on an honest dyno is really asking for too much (and unnecessarily setting yourself up for disappointment which is why I take the time to post).

Anyone truly looking for 500 RWHP has to know up front that you cant leave a stone un-turned in your quest to get there (with a stock 346), especially one with a mild cam profile....its extremely difficult and everything needs to be optimized and even then your likely to fall short. That's the reality of the situation....there is a reason less than 1% of the folks that post on this board have achieved that number

Couple of "stones" you didnt turn over listed below....this is why I say on paper this isn't a 500 RWHP build....its more of a 465 ish RWHP build (IMO) quickly glancing over things but that's not a number to be ashamed off by any means. Cracking 450 with a small cammed build that's alot more explosive and fun to drive is still very impressive....the more time you have spent here on Tech the more you know that to be true.

The choice of heads....while I feel my MMS 223 is an excellent head (really excellent factoring in the cost), my MMS 220 is a better choice if your shooting for the elusive (and very exclusive) 500 club.

LS7 lifters....The OEM lifters give up lift and duration compared to a much better Johnson with the short travel feature. That costs you power and are slightly noisier not to mention

Stock rockers....not as optimal as roller rockers....less net effective lift

FAST 102....Needs to be ported (not sure if it is....worth mentioning in the event it isn't).

Clutch....often overlooked and the source of many folks not being as close to 500 as they could have been. You NEED a lightweight unit which can be worth 12-14 RWHP over a unit that weighs 50+ lbs.....something in the low/mid 30's is ideal for making power and providing enough inertia for good drivability. The Mamofied RPS unit I offer is the perfect clutch for this particular task

These are some of the things that quickly jumped at me looking down the build list and worth mentioning.

On paper this build is closer to 450 RWHP than it is 500 but landing anywhere in between those two numbers would be a job well accomplished and a very enjoyable car to drive....it will be fast with no sacrifice in the day to day enjoyment of the car which can get old quick with big cams that only target the peak number of the power curve

Hope some of you find this post enlightening and give you some things to think about!

Regards,
Tony
__________________


www.mamomotorsports.com

[email protected]

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!

Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 05-23-2017 at 10:40 PM.
Tony @ Mamo Motorsports is offline  
Old 05-23-2017, 06:49 PM
  #11  
11 Second Club
 
SoFla01SSLookinstok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,437
Default

Should def be a strong runner. In 4 graph. Kind of thought same thing the other night when I saw the thread. "Don't think 500rwhp but probably over 450". Nice build.
SoFla01SSLookinstok is offline  
Old 05-23-2017, 10:30 PM
  #12  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (21)
 
regorih383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pasadena Tx,
Posts: 1,702
Default

Wow!!!! Jaw dropped! @ Tony Mamo

I'll hold my final thoughts till after the dyno day.
regorih383 is offline  
Old 05-24-2017, 07:24 PM
  #13  
10 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
 
Darth_V8r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 6,536
Default

@regorih383 - lol at sig quote. i used to say camshafts were like breast implants because you always wish you had gone bigger after theyre installed.

@OP - I really hesitated, because I don't like to curb enthusiasm, but Tony is right about several points. I do think 450-470 is quite realistic, but 500 hp on a 346 takes everything you've got. my first shot at it was a pretty similar build to your, except for the lifters, since I used johnson short travels. Anyway, with that build I hit 470. Now, the cam you have compared to mine is probably better, because your IVC is later and your EVO is earlier compared to my first cam, so it will likely rev better. And you'll have less overlap, so itll be easier to tune for sure.

My second shot at it after doing pretty much everything on Tony's list below, I still came up short at 496, and that was still on that 227/235 cam.

I finally punched through on my third attempt, but it was on a much larger cam and jumping to solid roller lifters that really pushed it over the top.

Now, I only say all that above to say this - i think your build could break the 500 mark with those heads as the foundation, but it'll take more than what you've got in your current list. At the same time, I sort of hope you DO hit it, because I like seeing these builds do really well.

But let's say you don't and you get 450-470. Yours is probably going to be more fun to drive vs mine. Youll have better torque off idle and in cruising ranges. And that kind of power on a 227/232 cam is freaking awesome. Guys on ported factory heads are using alot more cam than that to get similar power. but above that 450-470 mark, you really start to make compromises to gain HP, so if the number matters that much to you, be aware of what you can potentially do to the car.

And remember there is a reason you see guys "DE-mod" from time to time - you can go too far and turn the car into a POS if you're not careful. And everyone's tolerance for it is different. Mine is quite high. Others aren't. Most of that is in going too large with the cam. But then some of us like the larger cams. I've had people tell me they were more impressed with the car when it "only"made 470, because it was so much more comfortable.

Anyway, I'm very excited to see how this build turns out. Anything north of 450-hp is really very good IMO
Darth_V8r is offline  
Old 05-26-2017, 11:47 PM
  #14  
11 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
jerry306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 148
Default

OK guys finally made it to the Dyno today guys , the weather was not all that great, 85 degrees and 80% humidity. Still went ahead and made some 3 pulls... best was 466/421, not all that impressed but i can live with it, the car drives great and feels awesome...thanks to Velocity Motorsports for letting me use their Dyno, and to @regorih383 for all the help....
Attached Thumbnails H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)-img_0052.jpg  
jerry306 is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 08:24 AM
  #15  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (66)
 
blk00ss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Jasper, AL
Posts: 2,369
Default

Originally Posted by jerry306 View Post
OK guys finally made it to the Dyno today guys , the weather was not all that great, 85 degrees and 80% humidity. Still went ahead and made some 3 pulls... best was 466/421, not all that impressed but i can live with it, the car drives great and feels awesome...thanks to Velocity Motorsports for letting me use their Dyno, and to @regorih383 for all the help....
https://youtu.be/2QfUIle2NHY
Why are you disappointed? Tiny nailed it. He told you within 4hp what you would make. Your mod list didn't have 500rwhp on it anywhere.
blk00ss is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 09:07 AM
  #16  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
HCI2000SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Howell & Fenton MI
Posts: 11,159
Default

I don't get why you are disappointed either. Forget the dyno number....i bet it runs liked a raped ape and thats all that matters
HCI2000SS is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 09:26 AM
  #17  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (21)
 
sillysspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 775
Default

Originally Posted by HCI2000SS View Post
I don't get why you are disappointed either. Forget the dyno number....i bet it runs liked a raped ape and thats all that matters

Yep bet it's a bad bish. Enjoy!
sillysspeed is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 10:12 AM
  #18  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (8)
 
mOtOrHeAd MiKe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ottawa Ontario, Canada - where arguing "DA" is for the slow and weak...
Posts: 1,055
Default

Originally Posted by blk00ss View Post
Why are you disappointed? Tiny nailed it. He told you within 4hp what you would make. Your mod list didn't have 500rwhp on it anywhere.
Tony did nail it. OP needs to stop chasing dyno numbers, and take it to the track.

It blows my mind how few people understand what a no compromises all out max effort SBE LS1 entails (generalizing a bit here); well the one compromise is an engine that ends up being essentially race-only (again a bit of a generalization).
mOtOrHeAd MiKe is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 11:15 AM
  #19  
11 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
jerry306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: houston
Posts: 148
Default

IM not disappointed guys, im just not that impressed with the #'s and i would of thought they would been a little higher, but by no means do i think this setup is't great. Very fun to drive and cruise around town, getting anything over 450rwhp out of these Ls small blocks is awesome specially with such a moderate cam...
jerry306 is offline  
Old 05-27-2017, 11:52 AM
  #20  
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 119
Default

OP those are impressive numbers. i had a 500 whp goal in my mind too, until i had to start funding/building my setup. i should've just went turbo 5.3
93Rat is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: H/C/I Build: MMS 223 Heads by MamoMotorsports(dyno ##)


About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: