Starting to think aftermarket heads instead of ported 243s.. need inputs
05-05-2018, 01:27 AM
#1
Starting to think aftermarket heads instead of ported 243s.. need inputs So, I might be able to do some extra traveling for work this year, so I might be able to come up with more money for my heads/valvetrain/cam/intake. So, that has me thinking aftermarket heads (as of right now, I am planning to go with AI 243s since they can weld the combustion chambers for higher compression. Aftermarket heads will have to be at least 20% better to justify the extra $). I think I can have right around $4k maybe $4300 So.... give me your inputs. I will be getting heads, matched cam, matched valvetrain, and port matched intake.
- Must work without fly-cutting pistons.
- Naturally Aspirated - no interest in N02 or boost.
- Daily driver car
- 1 7/8 headers
- 4" intake plumbing
- 6 speed
- 4.10 rearend
- Goals are 1/4 mile times, not HP numbers. 450HP 10.8 sec 1/4 mile is much better than 480HP 11sec 1/4 mile.
- At least 11:1 compression. I am switching to flex fuel, so higher compression is better.
So... Mamo 220, AI Dart 223, AI TFS 220 (starts with 220s, so it will be a little higher), BTR TFS 225, PRC 227?
- Must work without fly-cutting pistons.
- Naturally Aspirated - no interest in N02 or boost.
- Daily driver car
- 1 7/8 headers
- 4" intake plumbing
- 6 speed
- 4.10 rearend
- Goals are 1/4 mile times, not HP numbers. 450HP 10.8 sec 1/4 mile is much better than 480HP 11sec 1/4 mile.
- At least 11:1 compression. I am switching to flex fuel, so higher compression is better.
So... Mamo 220, AI Dart 223, AI TFS 220 (starts with 220s, so it will be a little higher), BTR TFS 225, PRC 227?
Last edited by FCar2000TA; 05-05-2018 at 05:02 PM.
05-05-2018, 02:14 AM
#3
The dream package would be 11.5:1 compression and high 220's cam without fly cutting. I am not going to fly cut or replace pistons. If the motor comes out, the car will be on stands until I can get the new motor.
Last edited by FCar2000TA; 05-05-2018 at 02:29 AM.
05-05-2018, 02:28 AM
#4
And that is true.
I was originally gonna do the same I wanted a bigger cam so he sent me a 237-242
I had Tony mill down the heads 57cc
Although I did have Aftermarket pistons.
But motor took a dump before I even got to install it.
So went bigger sold the 220s got 235s on a 416 essentially keeping everything else the same
And I'm very happy with the results
I was originally gonna do the same I wanted a bigger cam so he sent me a 237-242
I had Tony mill down the heads 57cc
Although I did have Aftermarket pistons.
But motor took a dump before I even got to install it.
So went bigger sold the 220s got 235s on a 416 essentially keeping everything else the same
And I'm very happy with the results
05-05-2018, 06:51 AM
#7
Mms223's would be great, he has a great track record. I don't see much info on Dart's. I believe the AI tfs220's are opened up a little much for a 346, especially one that's going to live on the street. If you were going to go with tfs heads I would have tooley port the as cast 220's as the 225's are set up for a larger bore as well. Tsp has gone plenty fast on the prc227's but I haven't seen many others do it
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05-05-2018, 08:02 AM
#9
this was my first thought because a basic LS3 intake is such an awesome piece and can be ported and “rod” modded as well
the Titan IV would work well with it and most likely clear without fly cutting.
If your dead set on staying cathedrals then Mamo 223s are awfully tough to beat
could also do the LS2 snout mod to your intake from TPIS for the stealthy Image
LLSR Cam is another option to help guarantee those sub eleven passes that you seek
the Titan IV would work well with it and most likely clear without fly cutting.
If your dead set on staying cathedrals then Mamo 223s are awfully tough to beat
could also do the LS2 snout mod to your intake from TPIS for the stealthy Image
LLSR Cam is another option to help guarantee those sub eleven passes that you seek
05-05-2018, 09:21 AM
#10
I got the nascar 799s from a member on here ready to install for like 1150 or 1250 shipped it was. They are 229s I think. The bottom end isnt great when compared to other heads. Not a turd, but I think that large on a 346 isnt ideal. I do have a 236 238 cam so that is hurting a little too. I will say tho for that price it' tough to beat. I made 460 rwhp through an m6 and 9 inch with a fast 90 on a dynojet. The power was really hanging on both tq and hp. We limit it at a conservative 6600 due to rod bolts and I'm not trying to push my luck. It really wakes up above 4500 tho. Cnc castings will always outperfom a factory head, but as AI has proven, u can get darn close for much less investment. Imo, save the money and go AI and save the MMS heads for ur 416+ motors.
05-05-2018, 03:01 PM
#11
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That is what I am thinking, but I don't follow many of the threads about aftermarket heads. I have read quite a few threads from Tony Mamo all of the way back to his days at AFR. I recall a quote from him a while back that was something like "Do it right the first time, it is less expensive than doing it twice". That really speaks a lot for what I have experienced over the years. My plan (if I can afford it) is to go as far as I possibly can with a stock LS1 shortblock daily driver. I plan to do an MID resleeved LS2 down the road, so maxing the car out now is a good plan. I even got the Mrs onboard with a 454 once we get debt down. (yes, my wife is a unicorn)
The dream package would be 11.5:1 compression and high 220's cam without fly cutting. I am not going to fly cut or replace pistons. If the motor comes out, the car will be on stands until I can get the new motor.
The dream package would be 11.5:1 compression and high 220's cam without fly cutting. I am not going to fly cut or replace pistons. If the motor comes out, the car will be on stands until I can get the new motor.
DarthV8R has already done this and documented extremely well. Check out his threads.
My .02 the MMS 220s are the best cathedrals on a sub 4.00" Bore, but by the time you add Tony's fixins (yells terra etc you will
blow your budget.
So I would do his MMS 223 Sportsman heads which others have mentioned,
just need 2-4* more exhaust duration in the cam spec. A HR cam something like ~227*/233* 114*+3* has made
460+ RWHP with excellent Daily Driver Manners, & increased PTV Clearance,
combined with a MMS FAST & 90/92 MM TB.
If you are doing your own work consider the Cam Motion LLR with factory rockers upgraded with bushings
(TSP OR CHE) and use the shim method done by Darth & Thunderstruck (takes more time & attention to detail
on the set up but MUCH less expensive, good PRs & lifters suggested by Cam Motion along with MMS MSD
Intake, with equivalent specs adjusted for lash ~ 233/239 you will gain ~20 RWHP AND just as important
carry your HP Peak 500+ RPM before rolling over and pick up .2+ at least at the track.
Just another suggestion.
Good Luck
05-05-2018, 05:37 PM
#15
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iTrader: (8)
yea mines not even ported for the power numbers in the sig. I am porting them now because of a unfortunate $ shift. Stock ls6 cam and through a 9". Hopefully it picks up another 20hp after i port them/mill them/work on the fast intake a bit more and try some 1.9 rockers.
05-05-2018, 07:19 PM
#20
That is what I am thinking, but I don't follow many of the threads about aftermarket heads. I have read quite a few threads from Tony Mamo all of the way back to his days at AFR. I recall a quote from him a while back that was something like "Do it right the first time, it is less expensive than doing it twice". That really speaks a lot for what I have experienced over the years. My plan (if I can afford it) is to go as far as I possibly can with a stock LS1 shortblock daily driver. I plan to do an MID resleeved LS2 down the road, so maxing the car out now is a good plan. I even got the Mrs onboard with a 454 once we get debt down. (yes, my wife is a unicorn)
The dream package would be 11.5:1 compression and high 220's cam without fly cutting. I am not going to fly cut or replace pistons. If the motor comes out, the car will be on stands until I can get the new motor.
The dream package would be 11.5:1 compression and high 220's cam without fly cutting. I am not going to fly cut or replace pistons. If the motor comes out, the car will be on stands until I can get the new motor.
The highest power generated from a stock shortblock was built by Darth Vader on this board and that engine is fitted with my MMS 220 heads. They are the perfect blend of efficiency with the proper cross section, air speed, and air "volume" (taking into account airflow CFM numbers under the curve and peak flow) for any 346 - 383 based combination.
Note that if you don't opt for the lighter hollow stem intake valves the cost is very similar to an AFR head or the like but I would certainly encourage you to run the lighter valves. Bottom line this is a much better conversation than it is a PM or email but get in touch with me and we can arrange a time to speak on the phone. I can also share with you pricing on my MMS 223 heads if the budget swells a bit too much with the full CNC 220 pieces but lets discuss your options and go from there. I can provide you with a variety of options regarding pricing and explain how they effect the bottom line.
My email is tony@mamomotorsports.com or just ring my cell (661)714-1317
If I cant get to the phone leave a message and I will call you back
Looking forward to potentially working with you on this combination
Cheers,
Tony
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Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
www.mamomotorsports.com
Tony@MamoMotorsports.com
Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Build it right the first time....its alot cheaper than building it twice!!
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 05-05-2018 at 08:31 PM.