LQ4 build...cam,heads, general Q's
08-14-2018, 07:50 PM
#21
LQ4 stock bottom end leave the dish pistons
61cc truck heads
Stock head gaskets
=10.7x:1 (or use 64 cc 799/243 heads for 10.2x-10.30)
Cam Motion drop in truck cam with $70 LS6 valve springs
Tons of fun from idle to 6k or so RPM, cheap, easy. Even be ok with stock stall.
SCR and DCR will be high so it will be snappy and efficient, will require 91/93 octane, whatever you have there.
As for using low compression in heavy vehicles I agree, but OP stated it would be 4000 pounds, Camaro's, CTS, Chevy SS, GTO, etc all were very close to that weight..
61cc truck heads
Stock head gaskets
=10.7x:1 (or use 64 cc 799/243 heads for 10.2x-10.30)
Cam Motion drop in truck cam with $70 LS6 valve springs
Tons of fun from idle to 6k or so RPM, cheap, easy. Even be ok with stock stall.
SCR and DCR will be high so it will be snappy and efficient, will require 91/93 octane, whatever you have there.
As for using low compression in heavy vehicles I agree, but OP stated it would be 4000 pounds, Camaro's, CTS, Chevy SS, GTO, etc all were very close to that weight..
pretty well the plan, just trying to pick a cam. it may just be me wanting more, but i don;t want to go too small with the cam and really wish i went a bit bigger hence looking at stuff just a bit bigger than a drop in truck cam.
and my thinking on the weight as well. a camaro is no light weight car. My brothers caprice tips the scales at around 4300 and it is not considered a "heavy" vehicle when it comes to building the engine for power as most on here would.
Looking at a 78 impala wagon this weekend to swap it all in. my google fu brings up specs that in stock form that car weights about 4100 or so.
08-14-2018, 07:57 PM
#22
they look a little smaller than i would like. i may very well be wrong. but as i just said, i don't want to get it all together and wish i had gone just a tad bigger. i still think i am staying well below too big, but my older brother just ls swapped his 63 bel air and after getting it all together, has cam regret. He got a BTR drop in truck cam and wants a bit more than it gave him.
08-15-2018, 11:21 AM
#23
pretty well the plan, just trying to pick a cam. it may just be me wanting more, but i don;t want to go too small with the cam and really wish i went a bit bigger hence looking at stuff just a bit bigger than a drop in truck cam.
and my thinking on the weight as well. a camaro is no light weight car. My brothers caprice tips the scales at around 4300 and it is not considered a "heavy" vehicle when it comes to building the engine for power as most on here would.
Looking at a 78 impala wagon this weekend to swap it all in. my google fu brings up specs that in stock form that car weights about 4100 or so.
and my thinking on the weight as well. a camaro is no light weight car. My brothers caprice tips the scales at around 4300 and it is not considered a "heavy" vehicle when it comes to building the engine for power as most on here would.
Looking at a 78 impala wagon this weekend to swap it all in. my google fu brings up specs that in stock form that car weights about 4100 or so.
As far as the drop in truck cam, you mentioned low end, so I threw that out there since they pick up power down low, even over a stock truck cam. If you're gonna run up to a 3k stall or so go a little bigger on the cam, but remember it's all a trade off and it gets more expensive with valve springs, push rods etc.
If you could swing it, a small ish cam and sending the heads out to be ported and milled would really wake things up. If you went smallish on the cam you could save a little money to put towards the heads and then look at it as only spending say 500 on the heads..? I try to convince my self to spend more that way, but if it means I get a whole lot more for the money i'm happy.
Only reason I mention all that is a little more cam isn't going to make a lot of difference, especially at 4000 pounds, you're talking getting a little bigger cam for say 10-20 more hp and spending an additional 200-300 dollars for more serious valve springs etc. So I understand your brothers regret, but I think if he had gotten just a little more cam, it probably still wouldn't be enough. I don't see 10-20 more hp making or breaking how you feel about the cam in other words, especially when it means you have to go to a stall, or larger stall and more expensive valve train parts.
Just some food for thought, and surely enough info to make your decision even more complicated lol.
Edit: BTR stage 4 truck cam, 224/230 553/547 111+2
Comes with valve springs and seals for $398 on BTR website, there's a stage 3 also.
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/bt...aft-36539.html
Last edited by 00pooterSS; 08-15-2018 at 11:32 AM.
08-15-2018, 11:39 AM
#24
My best advice really though is to call one of the vendors and discuss with them what you want.
We have a ton of excellent ones on here TSP, BTR, Cam Motion, WS6store, Livernois, Summit etc..
There could be 100 cam recommendations thrown at you here and most or all of them actually be good.
We have a ton of excellent ones on here TSP, BTR, Cam Motion, WS6store, Livernois, Summit etc..
There could be 100 cam recommendations thrown at you here and most or all of them actually be good.
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2BFAST (12-31-2021)
08-15-2018, 12:32 PM
#25
By going with the 243's, you spend a little more than by milling, but most likely, you can reuse the pushrods, as opposed to buying new ones (Have to check the length, as good practice).. That is somewhat of a time and cost offset to justify the swap. I did the LQ4, with the 243's, and the Hi Lift ASA cam from the WS6store, along with bigger injectors. Pretty much as WS6 described... My car is a 67 malibu, and it dynoed decent. Unfortunately, I can give you no seat of the pants impression, as I have an injury that has wreaked havoc with my right leg, and my car is a manual. So I only get to look longingly at it, and fire it up occasionally, until I am able to take it out for my first test drive...
08-15-2018, 01:23 PM
#26
Cool build, I've been itching to do a wagon at some point too.
As far as the drop in truck cam, you mentioned low end, so I threw that out there since they pick up power down low, even over a stock truck cam. If you're gonna run up to a 3k stall or so go a little bigger on the cam, but remember it's all a trade off and it gets more expensive with valve springs, push rods etc.
If you could swing it, a small ish cam and sending the heads out to be ported and milled would really wake things up. If you went smallish on the cam you could save a little money to put towards the heads and then look at it as only spending say 500 on the heads..? I try to convince my self to spend more that way, but if it means I get a whole lot more for the money i'm happy.
Only reason I mention all that is a little more cam isn't going to make a lot of difference, especially at 4000 pounds, you're talking getting a little bigger cam for say 10-20 more hp and spending an additional 200-300 dollars for more serious valve springs etc. So I understand your brothers regret, but I think if he had gotten just a little more cam, it probably still wouldn't be enough. I don't see 10-20 more hp making or breaking how you feel about the cam in other words, especially when it means you have to go to a stall, or larger stall and more expensive valve train parts.
Just some food for thought, and surely enough info to make your decision even more complicated lol.
Edit: BTR stage 4 truck cam, 224/230 553/547 111+2
Comes with valve springs and seals for $398 on BTR website, there's a stage 3 also.
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/bt...aft-36539.html
As far as the drop in truck cam, you mentioned low end, so I threw that out there since they pick up power down low, even over a stock truck cam. If you're gonna run up to a 3k stall or so go a little bigger on the cam, but remember it's all a trade off and it gets more expensive with valve springs, push rods etc.
If you could swing it, a small ish cam and sending the heads out to be ported and milled would really wake things up. If you went smallish on the cam you could save a little money to put towards the heads and then look at it as only spending say 500 on the heads..? I try to convince my self to spend more that way, but if it means I get a whole lot more for the money i'm happy.
Only reason I mention all that is a little more cam isn't going to make a lot of difference, especially at 4000 pounds, you're talking getting a little bigger cam for say 10-20 more hp and spending an additional 200-300 dollars for more serious valve springs etc. So I understand your brothers regret, but I think if he had gotten just a little more cam, it probably still wouldn't be enough. I don't see 10-20 more hp making or breaking how you feel about the cam in other words, especially when it means you have to go to a stall, or larger stall and more expensive valve train parts.
Just some food for thought, and surely enough info to make your decision even more complicated lol.
Edit: BTR stage 4 truck cam, 224/230 553/547 111+2
Comes with valve springs and seals for $398 on BTR website, there's a stage 3 also.
https://www.briantooleyracing.com/bt...aft-36539.html
as for the cam. He used a BTR drop in (no spring upgrades or anything required) stage, what i am considering the drop in. Its only at about 500 lift. gave just a touch of a lope at idle, but otherwise feels pretty stock driving. Hence why i am looking for more.
i planned on a converter, back to the do it once, do it right thing. don't want to have to limp along and not get what i paid for out of everything else by using the stock, too small, converter.
I have contacted a few, and recomendations are all over the place. WS6 store suggested the high lift ASA cam, but i think it will move my power band higher than i would like. I think it is truly too much cam what what i am after. BTR suggested their stage 2 truck cam, Vinci suggested the "butt kicker" cam, TSP suggested their stage 1 car cam. all with very different specs, but what i do know from my research is i am trying to keep duration under about 220, and no need for huge lift on 706/862 heads since i will run out of head at higher RPM anyway. Keep lift abound mid 500's or so where the head seems to work well at.
BTR stage 2 truck cam looks pretty good from where i am sitting. 213/218@ .050 with .553 lift on a 113+3.
By going with the 243's, you spend a little more than by milling, but most likely, you can reuse the pushrods, as opposed to buying new ones (Have to check the length, as good practice).. That is somewhat of a time and cost offset to justify the swap. I did the LQ4, with the 243's, and the Hi Lift ASA cam from the WS6store, along with bigger injectors. Pretty much as WS6 described... My car is a 67 malibu, and it dynoed decent. Unfortunately, I can give you no seat of the pants impression, as I have an injury that has wreaked havoc with my right leg, and my car is a manual. So I only get to look longingly at it, and fire it up occasionally, until I am able to take it out for my first test drive...
08-15-2018, 03:03 PM
#27
budget is for sure a concern, but i would much rather do it right the first time. it is always cheaper to do it right once, than to do it twice so regardless i am getting decent springs, new push rods and such. I don't want to just barely have enough spring or anything. cams i have been looking at are mid .500 lift range, so decent behives will handle that nicely, and some good .080 5/16" pushrods are worth the extra insurance.
as for the cam. He used a BTR drop in (no spring upgrades or anything required) stage, what i am considering the drop in. Its only at about 500 lift. gave just a touch of a lope at idle, but otherwise feels pretty stock driving. Hence why i am looking for more.
i planned on a converter, back to the do it once, do it right thing. don't want to have to limp along and not get what i paid for out of everything else by using the stock, too small, converter.
I have contacted a few, and recomendations are all over the place. WS6 store suggested the high lift ASA cam, but i think it will move my power band higher than i would like. I think it is truly too much cam what what i am after. BTR suggested their stage 2 truck cam, Vinci suggested the "butt kicker" cam, TSP suggested their stage 1 car cam. all with very different specs, but what i do know from my research is i am trying to keep duration under about 220, and no need for huge lift on 706/862 heads since i will run out of head at higher RPM anyway. Keep lift abound mid 500's or so where the head seems to work well at.
BTR stage 2 truck cam looks pretty good from where i am sitting. 213/218@ .050 with .553 lift on a 113+3.
706 heads are pretty much a for sure thing at this point. should put me right around 10.5:1 with stock head gaskets. skipping the 243/799's, the 706's put me right where i want to be.
as for the cam. He used a BTR drop in (no spring upgrades or anything required) stage, what i am considering the drop in. Its only at about 500 lift. gave just a touch of a lope at idle, but otherwise feels pretty stock driving. Hence why i am looking for more.
i planned on a converter, back to the do it once, do it right thing. don't want to have to limp along and not get what i paid for out of everything else by using the stock, too small, converter.
I have contacted a few, and recomendations are all over the place. WS6 store suggested the high lift ASA cam, but i think it will move my power band higher than i would like. I think it is truly too much cam what what i am after. BTR suggested their stage 2 truck cam, Vinci suggested the "butt kicker" cam, TSP suggested their stage 1 car cam. all with very different specs, but what i do know from my research is i am trying to keep duration under about 220, and no need for huge lift on 706/862 heads since i will run out of head at higher RPM anyway. Keep lift abound mid 500's or so where the head seems to work well at.
BTR stage 2 truck cam looks pretty good from where i am sitting. 213/218@ .050 with .553 lift on a 113+3.
706 heads are pretty much a for sure thing at this point. should put me right around 10.5:1 with stock head gaskets. skipping the 243/799's, the 706's put me right where i want to be.
What cam did your brother do that he didn't like? Did you say BTR stage 1?
What motor did he stick it in? Compression ration on that one?
08-15-2018, 03:42 PM
#28
His is a 5.3, stock other than cam and swap headers.
i realize it is apples to oranges a bit with mine being a 6.0 and higher compression, but watching him already wanting a cam swap after only putting 500 miles on the car, i don't want to end up up in that boat
08-15-2018, 05:49 PM
#29
true drop in BTR. no springs required cam. basically the smallest cam they had.
His is a 5.3, stock other than cam and swap headers.
i realize it is apples to oranges a bit with mine being a 6.0 and higher compression, but watching him already wanting a cam swap after only putting 500 miles on the car, i don't want to end up up in that boat
His is a 5.3, stock other than cam and swap headers.
i realize it is apples to oranges a bit with mine being a 6.0 and higher compression, but watching him already wanting a cam swap after only putting 500 miles on the car, i don't want to end up up in that boat
Well in that comparo, a stage 2 would have you in the same boat IMO
3 or 4 would probably be the ticket
08-15-2018, 08:09 PM
#30
will look into it a bit more. Thanks for all the input Pooter, not quite ready pull the trigger just yet, but soon i hope. If i get the car this weekend, it will shift things into high gear for sure.
and i was leaning towards the stage 2 simply due to it has very similar numbers to the Vinci Butt kicker (210/218 .551/.551). I was personally thinking something a bit larger, but without personal experience on this stuff relying a lot on outside help.
and i was leaning towards the stage 2 simply due to it has very similar numbers to the Vinci Butt kicker (210/218 .551/.551). I was personally thinking something a bit larger, but without personal experience on this stuff relying a lot on outside help.
08-15-2018, 08:19 PM
#31
TECH Senior Member
210/218 is a pretty mild cam. Which LSA?
08-15-2018, 08:53 PM
#32
By going with the 243's, you spend a little more than by milling, but most likely, you can reuse the pushrods, as opposed to buying new ones (Have to check the length, as good practice).. That is somewhat of a time and cost offset to justify the swap. I did the LQ4, with the 243's, and the Hi Lift ASA cam from the WS6store, along with bigger injectors. Pretty much as WS6 described... My car is a 67 malibu, and it dynoed decent. Unfortunately, I can give you no seat of the pants impression, as I have an injury that has wreaked havoc with my right leg, and my car is a manual. So I only get to look longingly at it, and fire it up occasionally, until I am able to take it out for my first test drive...
08-15-2018, 09:24 PM
#34
TECH Senior Member
The 114 will idle smoother, but the 112 will give a little more power.
08-16-2018, 09:38 AM
#36
they look a little smaller than i would like. i may very well be wrong. but as i just said, i don't want to get it all together and wish i had gone just a tad bigger. i still think i am staying well below too big, but my older brother just ls swapped his 63 bel air and after getting it all together, has cam regret. He got a BTR drop in truck cam and wants a bit more than it gave him.
Well the cam you listed was tiny so thats why I suggested them there are obviously hundreds to chose from and I would personally go MUCH larger
08-16-2018, 11:14 AM
#37
how much larger would you go?
Even talking to the pro's that sell them, it is not like they are even suggesting similar cams, they are literally all over the place. the one I listed was suggested by Roger at Vinci.
08-16-2018, 11:59 AM
#38
I feel like you're also looking at cams and relating them to a 5.3
You can bump everything up a decent amount with a 6.0
On top of that you have highish compression, all that will turn a small cam into a stock cam. If you smell what I'm cooking.
Therefore I'd go something right around 220 intake, obviously higher exh, 227 or so, with anywhere from 550-600 lift. Being a heavy car and wanting low end, needs some advance in the cam and tight LSA like 110-112
You said you don't want to under cam it, so I'm pushing you to go bigger
Read on this when considering LSA (we all know LSA isn't that important and that it's an after number that comes from proper valve events, but with nothing but an LSA change, it's cool to see the difference)
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/cams...ted-explained/
It isn't the bible on which cam to choose, just gives you more info to consider.
You can bump everything up a decent amount with a 6.0
On top of that you have highish compression, all that will turn a small cam into a stock cam. If you smell what I'm cooking.
Therefore I'd go something right around 220 intake, obviously higher exh, 227 or so, with anywhere from 550-600 lift. Being a heavy car and wanting low end, needs some advance in the cam and tight LSA like 110-112
You said you don't want to under cam it, so I'm pushing you to go bigger
Read on this when considering LSA (we all know LSA isn't that important and that it's an after number that comes from proper valve events, but with nothing but an LSA change, it's cool to see the difference)
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/cams...ted-explained/
It isn't the bible on which cam to choose, just gives you more info to consider.
08-16-2018, 11:59 AM
#39
the summit truck cams are even smaller than the cam i listed when looking at them.
how much larger would you go?
Even talking to the pro's that sell them, it is not like they are even suggesting similar cams, they are literally all over the place. the one I listed was suggested by Roger at Vinci.
how much larger would you go?
Even talking to the pro's that sell them, it is not like they are even suggesting similar cams, they are literally all over the place. the one I listed was suggested by Roger at Vinci.
08-16-2018, 12:19 PM
#40
I feel like you're also looking at cams and relating them to a 5.3
You can bump everything up a decent amount with a 6.0
On top of that you have highish compression, all that will turn a small cam into a stock cam. If you smell what I'm cooking.
Therefore I'd go something right around 220 intake, obviously higher exh, 227 or so, with anywhere from 550-600 lift. Being a heavy car and wanting low end, needs some advance in the cam and tight LSA like 110-112
You said you don't want to under cam it, so I'm pushing you to go bigger
Read on this when considering LSA (we all know LSA isn't that important and that it's an after number that comes from proper valve events, but with nothing but an LSA change, it's cool to see the difference)
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/cams...ted-explained/
It isn't the bible on which cam to choose, just gives you more info to consider.
You can bump everything up a decent amount with a 6.0
On top of that you have highish compression, all that will turn a small cam into a stock cam. If you smell what I'm cooking.
Therefore I'd go something right around 220 intake, obviously higher exh, 227 or so, with anywhere from 550-600 lift. Being a heavy car and wanting low end, needs some advance in the cam and tight LSA like 110-112
You said you don't want to under cam it, so I'm pushing you to go bigger
Read on this when considering LSA (we all know LSA isn't that important and that it's an after number that comes from proper valve events, but with nothing but an LSA change, it's cool to see the difference)
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/cams...ted-explained/
It isn't the bible on which cam to choose, just gives you more info to consider.
You have been a ton of Help on this. might bump up what i am wanting. I don't mind a good enabler when it comes to more power
Pretty sure i have seen that article before, Engine masters did a video on it as well too.
I'll up the ante and see what cams i find in a slightly larger range than i have been looking with a bit more lift and duration.