MaroonMonsterLS1

Top end was quiet enough that I couldn't hear it over the exhaust (axle dumped true duals)
Never sounded like sewing machine thats for sure.

Stock cooler block off plate

Lifters look fine
Cam lobes look fine
cam bearings and journals look fine

Melling Black O ring-correct for my pickup tube. Looked fine when torn down

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

How far was the block taken down? If all the way.. was the oil galley plug put back in and in well/sealing? Barbell in the rear replaced or new o rings installed? Is the cam retainer plate tight?

This is a bit of a tough one since you said the o ring on the pickup was good and all clearances good.

As for 7 quarts it likely wouldn't have prevented this issue since so many run around and drag race on 6. 7 may save a hard launching drag car or a road race car though.
Are you pulling a lot of G's on launch or cornering? If not I'd probably run the standard amount, hot rod did some testing and showed more stable oil pressure and higher hp with a lower amount of oil. Super interesting. Albeit, and if I recall correctly, they saw the increase at a little under standard fill level.

MaroonMonsterLS1

Brand new cam retainer plate torqued to spec along with new cam bearings. Heard people mention these as critical for oil pressure so I replaced them while I had it apart

Which oil galley plug are you talking about? I do not remomber removeing one

Barbell got a new o ring. I reused stock. I'm getting a billet one when it goes back together this next time

00pooterSS

iTrader: (40)

In the front of the block, same oil galley as the barbell. It's a press in deal that looks just like a tiny freeze plug

s30.hybrid

iTrader: (3)

RockinWs6

What I think is very odd is they all look the same, I've never seen anything like this. So the crank wasn't touched, rods not touched, just the bearings replaced and they all fail? 2 things I'd check for sure is the rod ends and crank journals Plastigauge is worthless for checking this.

s30.hybrid

iTrader: (3)

MaroonMonsterLS1

Stock rods. Stock Pistons. Stock Crank. All just GM balance.

The rod journals were polished but not cut down at all.

The mains were cut .010"

It's at the machine shop now checking the big end of the rod to see if they are out of round or if the diameter is too large to provide proper clamp on the bearing. I know that there are bearings made for .002 over on the OD of the bearing. Meaning I can hone the big end of the rod back to true round and get the right clamp load on the bearing.

I don't think the front plug was messed with...only the barbell.

RockinWs6

Are you sure the crank journals are round?

MaroonMonsterLS1

I had it at the machine shop to check over and they gave the crank a clean bill of health. I guess I don't know for sure other than that.

I'm thinking right now I'll get the big end of the rod resized (maybe with ARP bolts while I'm at it) and try a different crank that I have sitting on the shelf and have it all checked over. I'm not really sure where to go from here

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

This thread maybe of interest. Fresh rebuilt engine had 5 spun rod bearings after a brief amount of time on dyno.

Spun 5 Rod Bearings

MaroonMonsterLS1

Thanks for that link.

I guess lube on the backside is possible

Looks like other people in that thread recommended checking out of round so I'm glad I'm having that checked at the machine shop right now.

they will also get the block to ensure it's clean so there is no crud in the galleys.

I don't mind spending the money to do something right...I just don't want to have to deal with this hassle again!

RockinWs6

This is why I don't trust plastigauge for anything other than yes you have some clearance. Maybe the big end of the rods are that far out?

MaroonMonsterLS1

Well, not 100% sure what the real cause was. It's currently at the machine shop going to be getting the big end of the rod resized with ARP rod bolts. I see there are 2 different options. 180k psi or 200k psi. Which would you choose and why?

Going to mic everything for clearance and target .002-.0025 for everything unless there are some solid recommendations otherwise.

Will use a stock pump and not the high volume anymore.

Also going to build a pressure oil priming system to use before first startup.

Suncc49

I wouldn't waste the money on arp rod bolts

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

Hundreds of engines are assembled every day with plastigauge. Not everyone can afford to buy all the specialty tools necessary for Professional engine building. Especially if they are only doing it once or twice.
Normally, if you use it, try to check on 3 or 4 different areas of the same journal and close to the parting lines to make sure you are achieving proper torque and crush.
Another issue may be your torque wrench or readings. I always like to use ARP lube or crc black moly under the head for proper readings. Some will use motor oil no matter what, but i personally dont like that idea. The lube helps you get a very consistent reading on every bolt but also, if you havent had your torque wrench calibrated in 6 months or longer, get it checked or get a new one. So much movement is lost when bolts are installed dry, the metal to metal contact of the head on another surface soaks up alot of movement, creates alot of friction, and will require more torque for proper rod bolt stretch. Since (i assume) you are not measuring stretch, then you need to make your setup as efficient as possible.

I had an engine that took nearly a minute of running 3 separate times to build oil pressure and run to the top end. I went ahead and pulled the rods to see what they looked like. All perfect. Most builders dont like to admit to things like that because it scares the customers, but we dont personally build alot of engines so its not a blow for us. It was a personal build and i used a copius amount of lube on every surface which is likely the reason it took so long but also the reason it survived. Youll see some that use only motor oil and theyll dab up any drops etc and will curse anyone that doesnt do it like they do. Thats obviously the wrong way to come across to anyone, but dont tell them that. There is definitely more than one way to build an engine, but only a few ways to make sure your torque specs are correct. That is the most important part.

Fuel diluted oil can cause the same issue also. Ive seen that personally from guys driving on pretty terrible "break in tunes" or no tune at all.

Use the melling 10295. Dont go back with stock. and if using a double roller, ditch that too.

For priming just unplug the coil packs and turn the engine over until it builds 40+ or you see a good amount of oil on top of the rockers

BlwnLs1GTO

iTrader: (12)

I agree with all of that^. I've assembled several engines (sbc/LSx only) and never even thought about the possibility of false torque readings due to not lubing the underside of the heads/fasteners. And I admit, although I've built several good running engines, I'm a newb at engine building but I really believe in priming the motor with at least 2 Qts. of oil before starting it. Think of it as filling up all of the oil galleys as well as getting oil to the bearings before putting 1k+ RPM's to a brand new motor. I let the oil work it's way all the way up to the rockers, every single time now.
Good luck. I hope it was just an oversight on bearings, torqueing or something simple and your next engine goes together perfectly. Also support a single chain as well^, just get the good brand that they offer!

Launch

You said cam bearings were replaced, have you checked the cam bearings since this happened to see in case you haven't spun one?

truckdoug

iTrader: (25)

IME that's too long to go on a freshly assembled engine, personally I change the oil & filter right after the first heat cycle. Assembly lube clogs the filter really fast and from there it's just bypassing ALL the oil rather than the normal amount.

Your clearances sound fine. 2x check all the passages in the block and crank, reassemble. Before you put all the main caps on, maybe set up a dial indicator on them as they sit on the half shell as you roll it over.

You do trannies for a living right? sometimes there is no single smoking gun, just some hints on the wind. **** happens.

.

MaroonMonsterLS1

Cam bearings are all lined up. Hole at the 3 o'clock position. so if they spun, they all spun the same amount. Block is going back to the machine shop to get the galleys and everything all cleaned out, I will have this double checked.

I used white lithium assembly grease. Quite a bit. I'm using clevite bearings and will be using either clevite assembly lube, or permatex ultra slick assembly lube
I don't do transmissions for a living, (engineering 9-5) but do plenty of trans work and high performance stuff. I agree wholeheartedly that there is probably a compounding of issues that all added up to overall failure.

I'm going to try again, and pay extra special attention to the things discussed in this thread. I've also started building a pre oiler (essientially just a PVC pressure vessel you can fill with oil and add air pressure on top to force it into the block) and I'll use that when putting it back in the car.

One last thing I've just GOT to ask...despite the disagreement I think might follow...what do you guys recommend for break in oil? I've heard from alot of places to not use synthetic...and not use any additives. Just use a good conventional oil high in zddp, with minimal detergents and moly. Oil is cheap so I don't mind wasting money on oil if that's what is "technically best" for this pile of **** f body haha
-change after first heat cycle
-change at 50
-change at 150
-change at 500
-change at 1000
-change at 2000
-proceed as you wish with whatever oil you wish (now OK to use synthetic)