What oil pump for 7k, road race, and axle oil lifters?
12-31-2018, 03:10 PM
#1
What oil pump for 7k, road race, and axle oil lifters? Trying to decide on which oil pump to run. Plan on turning up to 7k on my stroker motor, and have axle oiled lifters, but don’t want to suck the pan dry.
Pan is a c5 ls6 batwing that I have put the improved racing baffles in. I also opened up the passages behind the side baffles to get more oil in around the opposite baffle when cornering. Also will be using the improved racing crank scraper setup.
Will oil restricting pushrods be recomended in this application too?
Pan is a c5 ls6 batwing that I have put the improved racing baffles in. I also opened up the passages behind the side baffles to get more oil in around the opposite baffle when cornering. Also will be using the improved racing crank scraper setup.
Will oil restricting pushrods be recomended in this application too?
12-31-2018, 04:06 PM
#2
TECH Enthusiast
I'm not an expert on this by any means, but the stock pumps have cavitation issues at high RPM. I went with the how high pressure Melling 10295, the high volume pump, the meeting 10296 is known to suck oil sumps dry.
I plan on getting a C5 and turning it into a track car eventually so I would also like to know some of this information. It might be a good idea to add an Accusump into the mix.
I plan on getting a C5 and turning it into a track car eventually so I would also like to know some of this information. It might be a good idea to add an Accusump into the mix.
01-01-2019, 03:27 AM
#3
I went with the Melling high-pressure pump on my C5. Not stock because of high rpm concerns, and not high-flow because I've heard too many stories of LS engines getting oil starvation under high rpm and long high-g turns. Gen 4 seems to be more prone to that than Gen 3, but still. Plus the high pressure should compensate for the added oil cooler.
I haven't tracked my C5 yet but I spent last summer getting it ready and will be taking it out the next chance I get. Can hardly wait...
I haven't tracked my C5 yet but I spent last summer getting it ready and will be taking it out the next chance I get. Can hardly wait...
01-01-2019, 09:24 AM
#4
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I would def do axle oiling lifters
01-01-2019, 09:41 AM
#6
Trying to decide on which oil pump to run. Plan on turning up to 7k on my stroker motor, and have axle oiled lifters, but don’t want to suck the pan dry.
Pan is a c5 ls6 batwing that I have put the improved racing baffles in. I also opened up the passages behind the side baffles to get more oil in around the opposite baffle when cornering. Also will be using the improved racing crank scraper setup.
Will oil restricting pushrods be recomended in this application too?
Pan is a c5 ls6 batwing that I have put the improved racing baffles in. I also opened up the passages behind the side baffles to get more oil in around the opposite baffle when cornering. Also will be using the improved racing crank scraper setup.
Will oil restricting pushrods be recomended in this application too?
01-01-2019, 10:56 AM
#7
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2010 Camaro OP + Valve Spring Cooling Hi Thomas, I use a 2010 Camaro OP and port the pump/shim the pressure spring .060".
I "port" to Oil Pan in the area of the filter insert AND drill a new passageway in that area to "bypass" an amount of oil past the oil cooler.
UNDERSTAND the high engine RPM can "turn" your Valve Springs Blue from excess heat, thus top end oil flow is needed.
Your MB clearance should be .002" (AL Crankcase) with Rods @ 0035"
I would "overbalance" by 2%
Lance
I "port" to Oil Pan in the area of the filter insert AND drill a new passageway in that area to "bypass" an amount of oil past the oil cooler.
UNDERSTAND the high engine RPM can "turn" your Valve Springs Blue from excess heat, thus top end oil flow is needed.
Your MB clearance should be .002" (AL Crankcase) with Rods @ 0035"
I would "overbalance" by 2%
Lance
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01-01-2019, 05:46 PM
#8
ModSquad
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I always laugh when people hate on the 10296 pump. The increase in flow is 13%, which isn’t enough in my opinion to suck any pan dry, unless you either have a really small oddball pan, or you have an oil return problem, and your road racing your stuff. Your bearings will love you for the increased flow of oil. It helps cool them. And all a high pressure pump really does is eat horsepower. I run the 10296, ported by Tony.
I port my oil pans, like Lance describes, as well. The factory passage is small and leaves a lot of room to open up for oil flow. My Holley pans are the same way, and porting the passage works well on them also.
I port my oil pans, like Lance describes, as well. The factory passage is small and leaves a lot of room to open up for oil flow. My Holley pans are the same way, and porting the passage works well on them also.
01-01-2019, 08:28 PM
#9
The only cars I know of that died from oil starvation in turns were on road courses when it happened. I wouldn't worry about it in a street car or drag racer.
I have habit of breaking stuff though, and road courses are the whole reason I bought my C5.
I have habit of breaking stuff though, and road courses are the whole reason I bought my C5.
01-01-2019, 09:15 PM
#10
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My opinion is if your road racing, you should look into a dry sump system. It’s tough to watch an oil pump gauge in the middle of a turn. Dry sump gives reliability and frees up some hp.
01-02-2019, 01:13 AM
#12
I've been following the Spec Corvette guys to see how they do. So far it seems like Gen 3 motors on 200 treadwear tires with no aero aren't really in great danger. Most of them aren't even running baffles in the oil pan. So I'm going to hold off on a dry sump until/unless I get a Gen 4 motor, slicks, or aero. None of which are likely in the next couple/few years.
Meanwhile there's a thread over at CorvetteForum asking who hasn't blown their Gen 4 on a road course and it really does sound like dry sumps are the only way to go with those.
Meanwhile there's a thread over at CorvetteForum asking who hasn't blown their Gen 4 on a road course and it really does sound like dry sumps are the only way to go with those.
01-02-2019, 06:30 AM
#13
ModSquad
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I've been following the Spec Corvette guys to see how they do. So far it seems like Gen 3 motors on 200 treadwear tires with no aero aren't really in great danger. Most of them aren't even running baffles in the oil pan. So I'm going to hold off on a dry sump until/unless I get a Gen 4 motor, slicks, or aero. None of which are likely in the next couple/few years.
Meanwhile there's a thread over at CorvetteForum asking who hasn't blown their Gen 4 on a road course and it really does sound like dry sumps are the only way to go with those.
Meanwhile there's a thread over at CorvetteForum asking who hasn't blown their Gen 4 on a road course and it really does sound like dry sumps are the only way to go with those.
01-02-2019, 10:05 AM
#14
Hi Thomas, I use a 2010 Camaro OP and port the pump/shim the pressure spring .060".
I "port" to Oil Pan in the area of the filter insert AND drill a new passageway in that area to "bypass" an amount of oil past the oil cooler.
UNDERSTAND the high engine RPM can "turn" your Valve Springs Blue from excess heat, thus top end oil flow is needed.
Your MB clearance should be .002" (AL Crankcase) with Rods @ 0035"
I would "overbalance" by 2%
Lance
I "port" to Oil Pan in the area of the filter insert AND drill a new passageway in that area to "bypass" an amount of oil past the oil cooler.
UNDERSTAND the high engine RPM can "turn" your Valve Springs Blue from excess heat, thus top end oil flow is needed.
Your MB clearance should be .002" (AL Crankcase) with Rods @ 0035"
I would "overbalance" by 2%
Lance
I’m using a thermostatic adapter to my oil cooler, I was under the impression this drill mod wasn’t a priority since my cooler won’t be full flow the majority of the time anyway.
01-02-2019, 05:37 PM
#15
Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
01-02-2019, 05:55 PM
#16
Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
01-02-2019, 06:18 PM
#17
Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
The LS6 is a better set up for road racing. The head and block design allows the oil to flow back to the sump quicker. The hot set up for road racing a 6, is to uncap the rear head vents, set #7 ring gap at .0018 if doing the motor, and add baffles and a crank scraper.
The OP has a C5, but unless I missed it, didn't state if it was a 6 or a 1. The Ls6 motors are good racers with adequate oil return and a light valve train. I have no personal experience with LS3s, but I understand that the head design isn't as good for oil return. The LS6 oil pump is also adequate, but I found it interesting that Lance would recommend a 4h gen Camaro pump. Must be some special quirk to it.
01-02-2019, 07:36 PM
#18
ModSquad
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Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
yes, very common to add a quart of oil to ls road race engines. I love wheelies!!!!
01-02-2019, 08:42 PM
#19
Very common to add a quart over. I do it on my LS6 at all times. Its in a GTO which has a front sump and I circuit and oval race it. I never had a problem, but would also like to see pics of the mod. Lance where are you??
The LS6 is a better set up for road racing. The head and block design allows the oil to flow back to the sump quicker. The hot set up for road racing a 6, is to uncap the rear head vents, set #7 ring gap at .0018 if doing the motor, and add baffles and a crank scraper.
The OP has a C5, but unless I missed it, didn't state if it was a 6 or a 1. The Ls6 motors are good racers with adequate oil return and a light valve train. I have no personal experience with LS3s, but I understand that the head design isn't as good for oil return. The LS6 oil pump is also adequate, but I found it interesting that Lance would recommend a 4h gen Camaro pump. Must be some special quirk to it.
The LS6 is a better set up for road racing. The head and block design allows the oil to flow back to the sump quicker. The hot set up for road racing a 6, is to uncap the rear head vents, set #7 ring gap at .0018 if doing the motor, and add baffles and a crank scraper.
The OP has a C5, but unless I missed it, didn't state if it was a 6 or a 1. The Ls6 motors are good racers with adequate oil return and a light valve train. I have no personal experience with LS3s, but I understand that the head design isn't as good for oil return. The LS6 oil pump is also adequate, but I found it interesting that Lance would recommend a 4h gen Camaro pump. Must be some special quirk to it.
I'm not for sure but I think the L99's use a different oil pump since it has the DOD/AFM. My "guess" is that pump flows more to support that but it's just a guess.
01-02-2019, 11:45 PM
#20
The most promising theory I know of for the Gen 4 oil starvation issue is that the oil doesn't drain back from the heads fast enough. Restricted pushrods allegedly help somewhat, and one guy even put AN fittings into his heads so he could run hoses to the pan, but I don't think I saw how that turned out.