What oil pump for 7k, road race, and axle oil lifters? - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

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What oil pump for 7k, road race, and axle oil lifters?

Old 12-31-2018, 04:10 PM
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Default What oil pump for 7k, road race, and axle oil lifters?

Trying to decide on which oil pump to run. Plan on turning up to 7k on my stroker motor, and have axle oiled lifters, but donít want to suck the pan dry.

Pan is a c5 ls6 batwing that I have put the improved racing baffles in. I also opened up the passages behind the side baffles to get more oil in around the opposite baffle when cornering. Also will be using the improved racing crank scraper setup.


Will oil restricting pushrods be recomended in this application too?

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Old 12-31-2018, 05:06 PM
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I'm not an expert on this by any means, but the stock pumps have cavitation issues at high RPM. I went with the how high pressure Melling 10295, the high volume pump, the meeting 10296 is known to suck oil sumps dry.

I plan on getting a C5 and turning it into a track car eventually so I would also like to know some of this information. It might be a good idea to add an Accusump into the mix.
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Old 01-01-2019, 04:27 AM
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I went with the Melling high-pressure pump on my C5. Not stock because of high rpm concerns, and not high-flow because I've heard too many stories of LS engines getting oil starvation under high rpm and long high-g turns. Gen 4 seems to be more prone to that than Gen 3, but still. Plus the high pressure should compensate for the added oil cooler.

I haven't tracked my C5 yet but I spent last summer getting it ready and will be taking it out the next chance I get. Can hardly wait...
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:24 AM
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I would def do axle oiling lifters
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r View Post
I would def do axle oiling lifters
yep, already purchased johnson 2126lsr

planning on 3/8 pushrods as well
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bthomas View Post
Trying to decide on which oil pump to run. Plan on turning up to 7k on my stroker motor, and have axle oiled lifters, but donít want to suck the pan dry.

Pan is a c5 ls6 batwing that I have put the improved racing baffles in. I also opened up the passages behind the side baffles to get more oil in around the opposite baffle when cornering. Also will be using the improved racing crank scraper setup.


Will oil restricting pushrods be recomended in this application too?
Since you have a built stroker, the clearances may be looser than factory. When the mains and rods are over .002Ē, I like to use the 10296 to bring the pressure back up. Iíve heard the rumors, but I have yet to see anyone actually suck an oil pan dry.
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Old 01-01-2019, 11:56 AM
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Default 2010 Camaro OP + Valve Spring Cooling

Hi Thomas, I use a 2010 Camaro OP and port the pump/shim the pressure spring .060".

I "port" to Oil Pan in the area of the filter insert AND drill a new passageway in that area to "bypass" an amount of oil past the oil cooler.

UNDERSTAND the high engine RPM can "turn" your Valve Springs Blue from excess heat, thus top end oil flow is needed.

Your MB clearance should be .002" (AL Crankcase) with Rods @ 0035"

I would "overbalance" by 2%

Lance
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Old 01-01-2019, 06:46 PM
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I always laugh when people hate on the 10296 pump. The increase in flow is 13%, which isn’t enough in my opinion to suck any pan dry, unless you either have a really small oddball pan, or you have an oil return problem, and your road racing your stuff. Your bearings will love you for the increased flow of oil. It helps cool them. And all a high pressure pump really does is eat horsepower. I run the 10296, ported by Tony.
I port my oil pans, like Lance describes, as well. The factory passage is small and leaves a lot of room to open up for oil flow. My Holley pans are the same way, and porting the passage works well on them also.
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Old 01-01-2019, 09:28 PM
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The only cars I know of that died from oil starvation in turns were on road courses when it happened. I wouldn't worry about it in a street car or drag racer.

I have habit of breaking stuff though, and road courses are the whole reason I bought my C5.
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
The only cars I know of that died from oil starvation in turns were on road courses when it happened. I wouldn't worry about it in a street car or drag racer.

I have habit of breaking stuff though, and road courses are the whole reason I bought my C5.
My opinion is if your road racing, you should look into a dry sump system. Itís tough to watch an oil pump gauge in the middle of a turn. Dry sump gives reliability and frees up some hp.
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Che70velle View Post


My opinion is if your road racing, you should look into a dry sump system. Itís tough to watch an oil pump gauge in the middle of a turn. Dry sump gives reliability and frees up some hp.
I agree, but a dry sump setup isnít in the cards after my engine rebuild killed my finances for a while. Plan is to do the best I can with what I have. As far as what Iím reading the ls6 batwing does pretty well though
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:13 AM
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I've been following the Spec Corvette guys to see how they do. So far it seems like Gen 3 motors on 200 treadwear tires with no aero aren't really in great danger. Most of them aren't even running baffles in the oil pan. So I'm going to hold off on a dry sump until/unless I get a Gen 4 motor, slicks, or aero. None of which are likely in the next couple/few years.

Meanwhile there's a thread over at CorvetteForum asking who hasn't blown their Gen 4 on a road course and it really does sound like dry sumps are the only way to go with those.
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I've been following the Spec Corvette guys to see how they do. So far it seems like Gen 3 motors on 200 treadwear tires with no aero aren't really in great danger. Most of them aren't even running baffles in the oil pan. So I'm going to hold off on a dry sump until/unless I get a Gen 4 motor, slicks, or aero. None of which are likely in the next couple/few years.

Meanwhile there's a thread over at CorvetteForum asking who hasn't blown their Gen 4 on a road course and it really does sound like dry sumps are the only way to go with those.
The only difference in the oiling system Iím aware of between the ge3/ge4 engines is the towers in the valley for DOD, which I canít see what that would have to do with anything. Maybe a pan change? I enjoy CorvetteForum, because Iíve owned a couple, but the ďI blew my LS7 up todayĒ threads are getting old.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by pantera_efi View Post
Hi Thomas, I use a 2010 Camaro OP and port the pump/shim the pressure spring .060".

I "port" to Oil Pan in the area of the filter insert AND drill a new passageway in that area to "bypass" an amount of oil past the oil cooler.

UNDERSTAND the high engine RPM can "turn" your Valve Springs Blue from excess heat, thus top end oil flow is needed.

Your MB clearance should be .002" (AL Crankcase) with Rods @ 0035"

I would "overbalance" by 2%

Lance

Iím using a thermostatic adapter to my oil cooler, I was under the impression this drill mod wasnít a priority since my cooler wonít be full flow the majority of the time anyway.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:37 PM
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Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?

I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 00pooterSS View Post
Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?

I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
very common to add a qt to the pan on track cars
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bthomas View Post


very common to add a qt to the pan on track cars
Originally Posted by 00pooterSS View Post
Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?

I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
Very common to add a quart over. I do it on my LS6 at all times. Its in a GTO which has a front sump and I circuit and oval race it. I never had a problem, but would also like to see pics of the mod. Lance where are you??

The LS6 is a better set up for road racing. The head and block design allows the oil to flow back to the sump quicker. The hot set up for road racing a 6, is to uncap the rear head vents, set #7 ring gap at .0018 if doing the motor, and add baffles and a crank scraper.

The OP has a C5, but unless I missed it, didn't state if it was a 6 or a 1. The Ls6 motors are good racers with adequate oil return and a light valve train. I have no personal experience with LS3s, but I understand that the head design isn't as good for oil return. The LS6 oil pump is also adequate, but I found it interesting that Lance would recommend a 4h gen Camaro pump. Must be some special quirk to it.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 00pooterSS View Post
Lance and Scott, do y'all have pictures of the porting you do on the oil pan oil passage for the return oil?

I don't know if it's a thing with cars but when I used to do long distance stand up wheelies on bikes I would burn up the motor from starving it for oil and adding a quart or so would keep it from doing it. Has anyone tried this with road racing? I know it's not ideal, but neither is burning up a motor.
Pooter, Iíll see if I can find something. If not, Iíll take pics of the one Iím doing right now.
yes, very common to add a quart of oil to ls road race engines. I love wheelies!!!!
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rednari2 View Post
Very common to add a quart over. I do it on my LS6 at all times. Its in a GTO which has a front sump and I circuit and oval race it. I never had a problem, but would also like to see pics of the mod. Lance where are you??

The LS6 is a better set up for road racing. The head and block design allows the oil to flow back to the sump quicker. The hot set up for road racing a 6, is to uncap the rear head vents, set #7 ring gap at .0018 if doing the motor, and add baffles and a crank scraper.

The OP has a C5, but unless I missed it, didn't state if it was a 6 or a 1. The Ls6 motors are good racers with adequate oil return and a light valve train. I have no personal experience with LS3s, but I understand that the head design isn't as good for oil return. The LS6 oil pump is also adequate, but I found it interesting that Lance would recommend a 4h gen Camaro pump. Must be some special quirk to it.

I'm not for sure but I think the L99's use a different oil pump since it has the DOD/AFM. My "guess" is that pump flows more to support that but it's just a guess.
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Old 01-03-2019, 12:45 AM
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The most promising theory I know of for the Gen 4 oil starvation issue is that the oil doesn't drain back from the heads fast enough. Restricted pushrods allegedly help somewhat, and one guy even put AN fittings into his heads so he could run hoses to the pan, but I don't think I saw how that turned out.
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