Tick SNS stage 2 vs stage 3 - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

Notices
Generation III Internal Engine 1997-2006 LS1 | LS6
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Tick SNS stage 2 vs stage 3

Old 01-02-2019, 07:50 AM
  #1  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
70_velle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 54
Default Tick SNS stage 2 vs stage 3

Hey all,
mom trying to decide on a cam for my lq4, Iíve narrowed it down to the tick SNS torque max stage 2 or stage 3. These are the ls2 variants.
stage 2: 231/235 | .625"/.605" | LSA111+2
stage 3: 237/242 | .633"/.608" | LSA111+3

the engine will have ported 243s that are either milled .02 over for the stage 3 or .025 over for the stage 2. It has a trailblazer ss intake and 1 7/8 headers. This is mated to a 4l80e which will have a stall converter, as well as 4:10 rear gear in a 12 bolt posi.
any advice is appreciated!
70_velle is offline  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:48 AM
  #2  
"I MAID THEESE"
iTrader: (2)
 
Mavn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,323
Default

What converter?
Mavn is online now  
Old 01-02-2019, 10:00 AM
  #3  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
70_velle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 54
Default

Originally Posted by Mavn View Post
What converter?
I donít actually have the converter yet so it can be whatever will work best. I was thinking 3500-4000 stall
70_velle is offline  
Old 01-02-2019, 10:16 AM
  #4  
"I MAID THEESE"
iTrader: (2)
 
Mavn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,323
Default

Do the bigger cam and a 4k converter
Mavn is online now  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:29 PM
  #5  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
70_velle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 54
Default

My only worry with the bigger cam is that I wonít get the most out of it, I donít plan on spinning the engine past 6500-6700 realistically
70_velle is offline  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:35 PM
  #6  
"I MAID THEESE"
iTrader: (2)
 
Mavn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,323
Default

Originally Posted by 70_velle View Post
My only worry with the bigger cam is that I wonít get the most out of it, I donít plan on spinning the engine past 6500-6700 realistically
Why not?
Mavn is online now  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:38 PM
  #7  
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (2)
 
Ls7colorado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 374
Default

Originally Posted by Mavn View Post
Why not?
/\
|
|
|

this
Ls7colorado is offline  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:50 PM
  #8  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
70_velle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 54
Default

Itís a stock bottom end, it will be freshened up (new main bearings gaskets etc) but I have been advised by many not to spin it much higher than 6500
70_velle is offline  
Old 01-02-2019, 05:13 PM
  #9  
TECH Addict
 
98CayenneT/A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: White Bear, Mn
Posts: 2,925
Default

If it makes ya feel better, I spin my sbe 98 to 7100 constantly
98CayenneT/A is offline  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:57 PM
  #10  
"I MAID THEESE"
iTrader: (2)
 
Mavn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,323
Default

Not sure who's advising you of that .. I spin my ls1 to 7200 . Spun my 300k mile 4.8 to 7700. Spin my 416 to 7400 ..

Ls' need RPM . Everyone is scared of one of the best things that makes power ... RPM ..
Mavn is online now  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:22 AM
  #11  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (15)
 
AnotherWs6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 2,504
Default

I bounce my car off of whatever the factory rev limiter is routinely. Factpry tach is too slow. I dont worry one bit and will bump my limiter to 7,000 plus if I ever get it tuned.
AnotherWs6 is online now  
Old 01-03-2019, 12:24 PM
  #12  
12 Second Club
iTrader: (3)
 
buddha845's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 313
Default

Originally Posted by 70_velle View Post
It’s a stock bottom end, it will be freshened up (new main bearings gaskets etc) but I have been advised by many not to spin it much higher than 6500

IIRC this bit of advice is passed around due to the stock rod bolts but throwing in some ARP rod bolts should slightly ease your mind about turning 7k without piling on a ton of cash to the rebuild.

Sadly I don't have any input on the cam other than "go big or go home" and we all know how far that goes lol

Last edited by buddha845; 01-03-2019 at 12:30 PM.
buddha845 is offline  
Old 01-06-2019, 02:33 PM
  #13  
TECH Regular
 
Bspeck82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 492
Default

Stage 2 and a 3800 stall with 3.73s is what I would do if it's going to he driven a lot given these choices. 2.48 first means you need more gear, torque and a looser converter to 60 harder and pull better 330s

bigger isn't always better. If you are using an OEM style intake or fast your limited in peak rpm potential due to runner length and size. Peak rpm will occur at 6500ish so might as well get a cam that will peak there. I think the stage 2 is too big as well imo.
Bspeck82 is offline  
Old 01-06-2019, 03:12 PM
  #14  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
70_velle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 54
Default

Originally Posted by Bspeck82 View Post
Stage 2 and a 3800 stall with 3.73s is what I would do if it's going to he driven a lot given these choices. 2.48 first means you need more gear, torque and a looser converter to 60 harder and pull better 330s

bigger isn't always better. If you are using an OEM style intake or fast your limited in peak rpm potential due to runner length and size. Peak rpm will occur at 6500ish so might as well get a cam that will peak there. I think the stage 2 is too big as well imo.
the car isnít driven a whole lot, only in the summer and at most a few times a week. I donít think Iíd want to go much smaller
70_velle is offline  
Old 01-10-2019, 07:41 PM
  #15  
Teching In
 
gluemakerls1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21
Default

I just installed the stage 3 and love it. I have a 6spd and put 4.10s in it driveablity is great. It put down 376hp 390ftlbs tuned safe for nitrous. Made over 350Hp from 2500 rpms up and peak torque was around 4000rpms. If any of that helps you decide.
gluemakerls1 is offline  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:16 AM
  #16  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
99 Black Bird T/A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,893
Default

FWIW - maybe a little context.

Most of the 6,500 rpm concern goes back to 1997-2000 when the first LS1 cars were new. There was a lack of experience with higher rpm generally. A lot of new LT1's from earlier 1993-1997 didn't survive much 6,500 + rpm because the bottom ends wiped out. GM had some worn tooling issues and quality wasn't as good. Honestly, we didn't generally realize how much better the new aluminum LS1derful eine was in all respects at first. I had friends that refused to buy an LS fbody because they were scared of the aluminum engine would have massive issues within a few years. Might sound like science fiction but a that's was the sort of environment that fostered the 6,500 mind set.

I'm guilty of the 6,500 rpm fear, replacing an almost new LS1 out of pocket for your daily driver was scary expensive in 2002. I worried far less about spinning Small Block Chevy 305/350's to 7,000 rpm far less back in the 1997-2001 era than an LS1. Of course the LS bottom end is light years better than any stock small block Chevy.
​​​​​​
With the arrival of the LS6 engine, the rod bolts upgraded in 2001 for the LS family. The best intake then was the LS6 intake and it was generally peaked around 6,500 rpm at best. Most cams were 216/220, TR220, TR224, MTI B1 or T1 both 221/221, the Hammer cam 222/222, XER 224/224 or less for stock displacement LS1's. A 229/229 was a very big cam and basically done before 7,000 rpm with the LS6 intake, a lot of folks were scared a 224/224 would be too much for their daily driver . There were also some valve spring concerns back in the early days aka stone age. Tuning software was less advanced etc.

Besides in 2002 if your 224/224 heads & cam set up peaked at ~6,000 rpm like mine did, there wasn't much point in turning 7,000 rpm.

There were some early LS1's that didn't fair well with the high rpm - one failure (for whatever reason) would spread a lot of concern. Probably as lot of those early failures were missed shifts, valve spring related failure, lifter related, set up related install errors, bad harmonics with cheapo under drive pulleys snapping the timing chain or just bad luck with a rod bolt.

Unless resizing the rods, I would leave the rod bolts alone. Some get away with changing them without resizing and some don't. That is a throw of the dice.

Best wishes with your project



99 Black Bird T/A is online now  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:42 AM
  #17  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,072
Default

I think MAVN has proved once again that smaller cams can make great power without compromising street driving. With ported 243 heads the 231 duration cam should work great and drive pretty well. I don't see the need to go bigger unless you are spinning higher than 7000 rpm.
wannafbody is offline  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:49 AM
  #18  
Teching In
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 1
Default

I just had HPA install 1 7/8 TSP headers and the SNS 2 cam package on my 98’ SS and it made 383/383. Great torque down low and pulls like a freight train up top while still having good driveability. Still running stock heads and intake but FWIW its a great cam.
BigRy916 is offline  


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: