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Street Cam Choice

 
Old 01-24-2019, 10:04 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion View Post
Cam Motion is fine. Just TSP is doing good work too. Talk to Lonnie there. He's TSP Human 3 on here for some reason.
Thanks again JakeFusion.

Just out of curiosity I ran calculations on the 210/214 .598/ .598 108 being discussed earlier in this thread that seemed rather unusual and they show this:

Overlap = -4

IVC = 33

EVO = 35

Surely a cam with events like this could really only be run in a truck with the smaller displacement LS motors.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:06 PM
  #62  
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It will detonate like crazy in an 11:1 motor. That's for a small motor with no compression.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:47 AM
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Just a casual observer here, but this thread got me looking at my cam card for my "street cam." My valve events are pretty similar to what is being recommended here with IVC at 43.8, and EVO at 50.9, however my duration is a bit longer at 226/230-113+2 giving me 1.8 overlap. So compared to the other cams being mentioned here it sounds like I am giving up some low end to get a little more up top, and carry past peak.
Note my setup should have a little more compression; AI 232 heads with supposed 62 cc chambers (bought second hand and never verified), stock head gaskets, and a mamo fast 102. I would not call it crazy explosive down low, but it is not a slouch and my whole goal was to not give up any down low compared to a just bolt on car. I think I have achieved that but haven't had it on the rollers yet, maybe this spring. Would be fun to compare driving manners to one of the reverse split/negative overlap cams being discussed here.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:46 AM
  #64  
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Anything under 4 degrees should behave pretty much like stock on an LS1 with a Gen III PCM. Once you get past that little things start to creep in to affect drivability.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:53 AM
  #65  
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I wanted to pick up everywhere with my LS1 so I left the stock 241 heads on it and went with a 218/224 113+3 and my 60ft times improved with the stock stall. With aftermarket 10" stall car is a certifiable rocket with perfect year round reliability. OP has a heavy gto though, Maybe op just needs to get an automatic?

Seriously though I stand by my recommendation. Something like a little single 216/216 110 lsa minus 1 or 2 degrees to get the DCR where it needs to be and it should make a lot of grunt with a free flowing exhaust. He needs no more duration than the first cam had and the same or a little more overlap to get back what he lost.
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:12 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by z-camaro View Post
Just a casual observer here, but this thread got me looking at my cam card for my "street cam." My valve events are pretty similar to what is being recommended here with IVC at 43.8, and EVO at 50.9, however my duration is a bit longer at 226/230-113+2 giving me 1.8 overlap. So compared to the other cams being mentioned here it sounds like I am giving up some low end to get a little more up top, and carry past peak.
Note my setup should have a little more compression; AI 232 heads with supposed 62 cc chambers (bought second hand and never verified), stock head gaskets, and a mamo fast 102. I would not call it crazy explosive down low, but it is not a slouch and my whole goal was to not give up any down low compared to a just bolt on car. I think I have achieved that but haven't had it on the rollers yet, maybe this spring. Would be fun to compare driving manners to one of the reverse split/negative overlap cams being discussed here.
I honestly feel like that 226-229 range is the sweet spot, assuming IVC of 40-43. it seems like you gain a lot going from lower durations into the mid to upper 220's without giving up much, and once you cross over to the 230's you start making bigger and bigger sacrifices for less returns on power.

If you're looking into doing anything on yours, I'd bump compression a bit by milling down to 60cc. other than that, if you're happy with the car, leave it alone. Seems funny to say, but i have seen people perfectly happy with their cars until they dyno and then they hate their car all the sudden, because they were 20-30 hp short of the their goal.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:16 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Darth_V8r View Post
I honestly feel like that 226-229 range is the sweet spot, assuming IVC of 40-43. it seems like you gain a lot going from lower durations into the mid to upper 220's without giving up much, and once you cross over to the 230's you start making bigger and bigger sacrifices for less returns on power.

If you're looking into doing anything on yours, I'd bump compression a bit by milling down to 60cc. other than that, if you're happy with the car, leave it alone. Seems funny to say, but i have seen people perfectly happy with their cars until they dyno and then they hate their car all the sudden, because they were 20-30 hp short of the their goal.
Thanks for the insights. I was set on an EPS cam so there's always a bit of wondering for how the car would have drove with the smaller 222-226, or the larger 226-234 option. I know the car won't be king of the dyno but my hope is that it would be in the 440/415 range and trap close to 120. I'm happy enough with it that it won't be coming back apart unless needed, so my only real options for more power at this point are optimized exhaust, EWP, vacuum pump, and TSP 1.72 roller rockers if they would provide enough bump to justify the cost of them plus new manton pushrods.

The thing I need to get ironed out to be happy with the car is the tune. Right now it surges in neutral when rolling, come to a complete stop for a second and it returns right to idle. I PMd you before and you gave me some ideas but I haven't had it back to my tuner, and I intend to wrap the exhaust a bit near the O2's and maybe the headers first since my tuner tells me its bacause my O2's aren't getting enough heat and responding slow.

Sorry to derail OPs thread.
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Old 01-28-2019, 11:35 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by JakeFusion View Post
Well, it might. There's a bit of forgiveness if it were 10:1... but if it's 11:1, I'd do something a little different. I think it's probably save to assume 11:1 and then work from there.

Given that, I'm surprised the Cam Motion cam felt so crappy. The added compression should have tightened it up.
I spoke to the shop that did my original setup, it was a long time ago but they say they basically always run 11:1 compression on their Heads and cam packages. Not exactly a solid guarantee but its all I can go on. So as you say, I work from there I guess.
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:17 AM
  #69  
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Wow, I think with that we all would have thought it would perform better. This is exactly why I do my own measuring and wrenching. I also keep detailed notes for everything I do. I think you are going to have to put another "hottie" back in there to get the performance you are missing. Do you still have the old cam?
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Old 01-29-2019, 12:56 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by stockA4 View Post
Wow, I think with that we all would have thought it would perform better. This is exactly why I do my own measuring and wrenching. I also keep detailed notes for everything I do. I think you are going to have to put another "hottie" back in there to get the performance you are missing. Do you still have the old cam?
Yeah, lesson learned. I wont be buying any mods without knowing the details now. I also think you're right, Ive seen the difference now and I don't think I can achieve both goals with this combo, I need a hottie cam. Yep, I do have the old cam still, its scratched from the lifter issue so its just sitting in its box in my garage.
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:31 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Pulse Red View Post
Yeah, lesson learned. I wont be buying any mods without knowing the details now. I also think you're right, Ive seen the difference now and I don't think I can achieve both goals with this combo, I need a hottie cam. Yep, I do have the old cam still, its scratched from the lifter issue so its just sitting in its box in my garage.
I suppose then you just need to figure out if it had any advanced ground in. You could send it out to be cam doctored (measured) and then you would know the exact valve events. That way we aren't all just shooting in the dark trying to recommend something. Logic dictates though, that you need the same Ivc and a little bit more overlap to see any improvement.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:37 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by stockA4 View Post
I suppose then you just need to figure out if it had any advanced ground in. You could send it out to be cam doctored (measured) and then you would know the exact valve events. That way we aren't all just shooting in the dark trying to recommend something. Logic dictates though, that you need the same Ivc and a little bit more overlap to see any improvement.
I'm with you on this, I have already spoken to a local cam manufacturer and I'm going to get the current cam measured to find out all the specs.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:51 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Pulse Red View Post
I'm with you on this, I have already spoken to a local cam manufacturer and I'm going to get the current cam measured to find out all the specs.
That's great, we look forward to finding out what you have there!
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:58 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by stockA4 View Post
That's great, we look forward to finding out what you have there!
It will be interesting, back when I got this original cam there was a lot of competition and secrecy around cams in the the LS1 scene. So I only got a small amount of info and had to push for some of the details like lift etc. Very different nowadays but I am curious if even that info was 100% right. Soon I will know. As mentioned earlier in the thread, short of something funny going on when they had the heads off to change the lifters, there really can only be two things that's caused the change in characteristics of this combo, the cam specs or the tune.
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:47 PM
  #75  
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Well this is interesting, the cam is not what I expected based on the info I had been told. Its actually smaller.

I thought it was a 216/220 .600/.600 112+0
its apparently a 214/217 .600/.587 112+4

So that changes the events a bit:


216/220 .600/.600 112+0

Overlap = -6

IVC = 40

EVO = 42


214/217 .600/ .587 112+4

Overlap = -8.5

IVC = 35

EVO = 44.5
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:53 PM
  #76  
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The current cam is as follows:

218/226 .595/ .587 116+4

Overlap = -10

IVC = 41

EVO = 53
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:04 PM
  #77  
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That should run very well on the street. Just a wee bit of irregular idle to let the locals know there's something going on.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:31 AM
  #78  
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I searched Comp Cams lobe catalogue and I couldn't find an exact match (the exhaust duration is 216, not the 217 from the Cam report) but I believe these are the lobes in use on this cam:

Intake:

Series: XTREME ENERGY XFI Int
Lobe#: 3013
@.050: 214
Lift @ 1.7: .600

Exhaust:

Series: XTREME ENERGY XFI Exh
Lobe#: 13134
@.050: 216
Lift @ 1.7: .587
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:35 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by G Atsma View Post
That should run very well on the street. Just a wee bit of irregular idle to let the locals know there's something going on.
I have to say that in a 6 speed Manual this 214/216 112 cam was strong on the street but I think it was the combination of parts that made it work in particular the heads.

Last edited by Pulse Red; 02-05-2019 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Pulse Red View Post
I have to say that in a 6 speed Manual this 214/216 112 cam was strong on the street but I think it was the combination of parts that made it work in particular the heads.
Well, there ya go! It should always be about the combination. A good set of heads and a cam to let them breath properly. Or put another way, a good cam and a set of heads that let it work to its potential. Only when the combo is right do BOTH statements make total sense.
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