400 WHP daily driver
01-30-2019, 03:18 PM
#22
OP can you tell us exactly what's required for an 01 Z28 to pass California emissions testing? Is it just an OBD computer scan? Is the sniffer tail pipe test required? Is there any sort of visual inspection to verify emissions equipment? Does CARB split hairs and check engine block casting number or cylinder head casting numbers?
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 01-31-2019 at 08:02 PM.
01-30-2019, 03:56 PM
#23
I made just under 400 rwhp in my 5.7 LS1 here in Australia which based on my observations would probably equate to around 410-15 rwhp in the US through shorty headers and an LS6 manifold (standard on our LS1). Configuration is as follows:
216/220 112 cam
CNC Ported 241 heads
Stock rockers
Rollmaster Double Row timing chain
25% underdrive pulley
Ported stock TB with stock LS6 manifold
OTRCAI with SD tune
1-5/8 short headers with 100 cpi cats
Twin 2.5" Stainless exhaust
I don't know what its like over there but its quite stringent in Australia if you want to try and pass emissions with a late model modified car (mine is a 2004 when a lot of newer emissions equipment came in). I think with a good tune this combo probably would pass emissions except for the cats, may need to move up to 200 cpi or higher cats which may cost a few hp. I previously ran opened to 2.5" standard cats and that would have been fine.
I replaced the 216/220 112 (-6 overlap) with a 218/226 116 (-10 overlap) and it sounds 100% stock but didn't make 400 rwhp, it made around 380 rwhp but is incredibly smooth. This may actually be closer to 400 rwhp on US dyno and that's what Cam Motion sort of indicated to me from memory. It doesn't have the low down of the smaller cam I had but that may not be an issue in an F body which weighs less than my car. I would be pretty damn sure that with a good tune and factory cats it would pass emissions over here. So you should be able to get a combination of cam that will do the job if everything else is right.
216/220 112 cam
CNC Ported 241 heads
Stock rockers
Rollmaster Double Row timing chain
25% underdrive pulley
Ported stock TB with stock LS6 manifold
OTRCAI with SD tune
1-5/8 short headers with 100 cpi cats
Twin 2.5" Stainless exhaust
I don't know what its like over there but its quite stringent in Australia if you want to try and pass emissions with a late model modified car (mine is a 2004 when a lot of newer emissions equipment came in). I think with a good tune this combo probably would pass emissions except for the cats, may need to move up to 200 cpi or higher cats which may cost a few hp. I previously ran opened to 2.5" standard cats and that would have been fine.
I replaced the 216/220 112 (-6 overlap) with a 218/226 116 (-10 overlap) and it sounds 100% stock but didn't make 400 rwhp, it made around 380 rwhp but is incredibly smooth. This may actually be closer to 400 rwhp on US dyno and that's what Cam Motion sort of indicated to me from memory. It doesn't have the low down of the smaller cam I had but that may not be an issue in an F body which weighs less than my car. I would be pretty damn sure that with a good tune and factory cats it would pass emissions over here. So you should be able to get a combination of cam that will do the job if everything else is right.
Why would a car dyno higher in the US than in Austrailia?
01-30-2019, 05:56 PM
#24
TECH Apprentice
I'm no expert and open to correction but I believe part of it is the different Dyno used and perhaps different measurements, especially for factory stuff. While its really difficult to compare results run on your local dyno in two different countries where there can be so many variables, there seems to be a decent difference between results for basically the same combo here and in the USA. I would have said its actually often as high as 15-30 rwhp but I tend to average it out.
In general when looking at Aussie results US people seem to be shocked at our lower readings, especially for LS stuff. On the flip side Aussies see a lot of US results as a little high compared to what we normally see here for the same sort of thing. Yet at the track the MPH shows the performance to be similar. Same can often happen when testing performance of these factory cars at the track too actually but that's a whole different scenario again.
I know that the LHD North American Ford Mustang was rated as more powerful than the same car but RHD sold here. Similar thing used to happen with the Ford V8s imported to fit into the Aussie built Falcon vs our locally built Holden V8s before we moved to the LS1. The Ford was rated the same in the brochure but would make less power when measured and be slower in comparisons despite basically being equal cars. From the factory our stock LS1 are rated lower than the same engine in the US but there may be specific reasons for that as I'm not sure exactly which spec you guys got vs what was sold here, however I believe this in part to how power was rated in the two countries.
It was quite interesting when a few years back when the AUS dollar exceeded the value of the US dollar, people were importing all sorts of parts, engines and cars from the US in huge numbers and the differences to what power these things made in the USA and here was very interesting. The US stuff nearly always dynoed less here. Still without some form of direct testing its hard to know for sure.
In general when looking at Aussie results US people seem to be shocked at our lower readings, especially for LS stuff. On the flip side Aussies see a lot of US results as a little high compared to what we normally see here for the same sort of thing. Yet at the track the MPH shows the performance to be similar. Same can often happen when testing performance of these factory cars at the track too actually but that's a whole different scenario again.
I know that the LHD North American Ford Mustang was rated as more powerful than the same car but RHD sold here. Similar thing used to happen with the Ford V8s imported to fit into the Aussie built Falcon vs our locally built Holden V8s before we moved to the LS1. The Ford was rated the same in the brochure but would make less power when measured and be slower in comparisons despite basically being equal cars. From the factory our stock LS1 are rated lower than the same engine in the US but there may be specific reasons for that as I'm not sure exactly which spec you guys got vs what was sold here, however I believe this in part to how power was rated in the two countries.
It was quite interesting when a few years back when the AUS dollar exceeded the value of the US dollar, people were importing all sorts of parts, engines and cars from the US in huge numbers and the differences to what power these things made in the USA and here was very interesting. The US stuff nearly always dynoed less here. Still without some form of direct testing its hard to know for sure.
01-30-2019, 07:03 PM
#25
I'm no expert and open to correction but I believe part of it is the different Dyno used and perhaps different measurements, especially for factory stuff. While its really difficult to compare results run on your local dyno in two different countries where there can be so many variables, there seems to be a decent difference between results for basically the same combo here and in the USA. I would have said its actually often as high as 15-30 rwhp but I tend to average it out.
In general when looking at Aussie results US people seem to be shocked at our lower readings, especially for LS stuff. On the flip side Aussies see a lot of US results as a little high compared to what we normally see here for the same sort of thing. Yet at the track the MPH shows the performance to be similar. Same can often happen when testing performance of these factory cars at the track too actually but that's a whole different scenario again.
I know that the LHD North American Ford Mustang was rated as more powerful than the same car but RHD sold here. Similar thing used to happen with the Ford V8s imported to fit into the Aussie built Falcon vs our locally built Holden V8s before we moved to the LS1. The Ford was rated the same in the brochure but would make less power when measured and be slower in comparisons despite basically being equal cars. From the factory our stock LS1 are rated lower than the same engine in the US but there may be specific reasons for that as I'm not sure exactly which spec you guys got vs what was sold here, however I believe this in part to how power was rated in the two countries.
It was quite interesting when a few years back when the AUS dollar exceeded the value of the US dollar, people were importing all sorts of parts, engines and cars from the US in huge numbers and the differences to what power these things made in the USA and here was very interesting. The US stuff nearly always dynoed less here. Still without some form of direct testing its hard to know for sure.
In general when looking at Aussie results US people seem to be shocked at our lower readings, especially for LS stuff. On the flip side Aussies see a lot of US results as a little high compared to what we normally see here for the same sort of thing. Yet at the track the MPH shows the performance to be similar. Same can often happen when testing performance of these factory cars at the track too actually but that's a whole different scenario again.
I know that the LHD North American Ford Mustang was rated as more powerful than the same car but RHD sold here. Similar thing used to happen with the Ford V8s imported to fit into the Aussie built Falcon vs our locally built Holden V8s before we moved to the LS1. The Ford was rated the same in the brochure but would make less power when measured and be slower in comparisons despite basically being equal cars. From the factory our stock LS1 are rated lower than the same engine in the US but there may be specific reasons for that as I'm not sure exactly which spec you guys got vs what was sold here, however I believe this in part to how power was rated in the two countries.
It was quite interesting when a few years back when the AUS dollar exceeded the value of the US dollar, people were importing all sorts of parts, engines and cars from the US in huge numbers and the differences to what power these things made in the USA and here was very interesting. The US stuff nearly always dynoed less here. Still without some form of direct testing its hard to know for sure.
Well our results vary a lot amongst ourselves depending on which dyno we go to, air density, temps, etc.. So I would think that would be a bigger player in it all. But I don't know everything who knows for sure.
01-31-2019, 12:30 PM
#26
On The Tree
Thread Starter
OP can you tell us exactly what's required for an 01 Z28 to pass California emissions testing? Is it just an OBD computer scan? Is the winner tail pipe test required? Is there any sort of visual inspection to verify emissions equipment? Does CARB split hairs and check engine block casting number or cylinder head casting numbers?
01-31-2019, 12:58 PM
#27
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Ok....lets go a different route then. What is your acceleration goals?
Just because a dyno may read higher for one car vs the other doesn't mean the higher hp car is faster. Just because one guy has a h/c vs someone who doesn't also doesn't mean the h/c car is faster. So in your case acceleration goals makes more sense.
Actually it does in erryones case unless you just want to sound cool pulling into the cruise in.
Just because a dyno may read higher for one car vs the other doesn't mean the higher hp car is faster. Just because one guy has a h/c vs someone who doesn't also doesn't mean the h/c car is faster. So in your case acceleration goals makes more sense.
Actually it does in erryones case unless you just want to sound cool pulling into the cruise in.
01-31-2019, 01:48 PM
#28
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Ok....lets go a different route then. What is your acceleration goals?
Just because a dyno may read higher for one car vs the other doesn't mean the higher hp car is faster. Just because one guy has a h/c vs someone who doesn't also doesn't mean the h/c car is faster. So in your case acceleration goals makes more sense.
Actually it does in erryones case unless you just want to sound cool pulling into the cruise in.
Just because a dyno may read higher for one car vs the other doesn't mean the higher hp car is faster. Just because one guy has a h/c vs someone who doesn't also doesn't mean the h/c car is faster. So in your case acceleration goals makes more sense.
Actually it does in erryones case unless you just want to sound cool pulling into the cruise in.
01-31-2019, 02:00 PM
#29
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Forget about the cam. The cam is not the end all be all like many think. And in a pile of instances will not necessarily perform better.
You need a idea of the acceleration it has now and the acceleration you want. If your happy with a low 12-high 11 car at 115-118 then that can be easily had with the stock cam and other mods depending on your own skills to implement the mods.
You need a idea of the acceleration it has now and the acceleration you want. If your happy with a low 12-high 11 car at 115-118 then that can be easily had with the stock cam and other mods depending on your own skills to implement the mods.
01-31-2019, 03:27 PM
#31
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
3.90 gears, light clutch(the lighter the better your acceleration), ported fast 90 would be fine on it with tb, valve spring upgrade, 1.9 rockers, weight reduction and that doesn't mean intrusive gutting type weight reduction although that's up to you, dyno tune, ewp with tensioner delete, some type of ram air set up.
that would likely pick you car up 1sec in the quarter and make it a pile more fun to drive and still meet your emissions.
if you want more than that then a ls6 h/c package should be emissions legal there since they sold ls6 vettes there. That woukd add about 50-60 hp, increase the rev range about 800 rpm and reach your 400whp goal. You may have to tinker with the exhaust a little for that....just dot your i's and cross your t's type of thing or add cut outs.
that would likely pick you car up 1sec in the quarter and make it a pile more fun to drive and still meet your emissions.
if you want more than that then a ls6 h/c package should be emissions legal there since they sold ls6 vettes there. That woukd add about 50-60 hp, increase the rev range about 800 rpm and reach your 400whp goal. You may have to tinker with the exhaust a little for that....just dot your i's and cross your t's type of thing or add cut outs.
01-31-2019, 03:39 PM
#32
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Stop making sense. We dont make sense, we make hot rods
01-31-2019, 03:41 PM
#33
You know, back in the day, some guy put AFR 205s on his car, kept it 10:1, with shorty/smog headers, stock cam, and I think a FAST 90. Might have thrown some 1.8:1 roller rockers on there and some beehive springs.
It made like 420rwhp and drove exactly like stock.
The AFR 210s are a little better and CARB exempt. Swap over to LS7 exhaust manifolds, run a FAST 92, and some YT 1.8:1 rockers... you could see 400+ with no issues passing SMOG or reducing drivability.
It made like 420rwhp and drove exactly like stock.
The AFR 210s are a little better and CARB exempt. Swap over to LS7 exhaust manifolds, run a FAST 92, and some YT 1.8:1 rockers... you could see 400+ with no issues passing SMOG or reducing drivability.
01-31-2019, 03:58 PM
#34
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Funny part is we did pretty the exact scenario i explained on a friends ls3 c6 with the exception of using the ls3 intake i rod modded/ported and the car ran 11.0@125.x. We did that as a exercise to show just how effective those mods were.
01-31-2019, 04:28 PM
#36
Very few cams that are going to add much power will be smog friendly. You'll have to do a very mild cam and you'll likely end up around 370 or so. Depending on tons of factors of course
You need to take a different approach to power adders. I would focus on the heads and intake and making everything flow as good as it can other wise and reduce parasitic drag.
Is your car auto or stick?
You need to take a different approach to power adders. I would focus on the heads and intake and making everything flow as good as it can other wise and reduce parasitic drag.
Is your car auto or stick?
01-31-2019, 08:49 PM
#37
3.90 gears, light clutch(the lighter the better your acceleration), ported fast 90 would be fine on it with tb, valve spring upgrade, 1.9 rockers, weight reduction and that doesn't mean intrusive gutting type weight reduction although that's up to you, dyno tune, ewp with tensioner delete, some type of ram air set up.
that would likely pick you car up 1sec in the quarter and make it a pile more fun to drive and still meet your emissions.
if you want more than that then a ls6 h/c package should be emissions legal there since they sold ls6 vettes there. That woukd add about 50-60 hp, increase the rev range about 800 rpm and reach your 400whp goal. You may have to tinker with the exhaust a little for that....just dot your i's and cross your t's type of thing or add cut outs.
that would likely pick you car up 1sec in the quarter and make it a pile more fun to drive and still meet your emissions.
if you want more than that then a ls6 h/c package should be emissions legal there since they sold ls6 vettes there. That woukd add about 50-60 hp, increase the rev range about 800 rpm and reach your 400whp goal. You may have to tinker with the exhaust a little for that....just dot your i's and cross your t's type of thing or add cut outs.
Technically, LS6 heads,243's, 799's 706's not emissions legal for a 4th Gen fbody because 4th Gen's were never submitted for emissions certification with those cylinder heads. It's stupid but that's my understanding of how picky a visual inspection can be with CARB standards in California.
If ported heads, are being considered have Advanced Induction do a set of ported 241's that are welded up for more compression. These would pass the visual inspection being they are 241's - exactly like what came on 01-02 fbody car and can't be failed. Otherwise the AFR heads that are CARB certified.
AI - welded and ported 241's capable of 440whp to 470 whp
Facing scan and visual isn't too horrible. AI can probably spec a cam to hit 400 whp+ with a Fast 92 (CARB certified) intake and their welded & ported 241's. The 1 5/8 JBA's will hurt some on hp but can probably be worked around a shorty header with 1 3/4 primary that's CARB certified would be better. I would consider contacting AI to discuss if the build and desired results are possible.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 02-01-2019 at 04:46 AM.
01-31-2019, 09:14 PM
#38
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Good idea on the 241s. Idk how technical their inspections get . I thought as long as the emissions was left in place say putting a ls6 in it would be legal. I guess they can get pretty picky if they actually want you to keep the same head that's on the car.
But good for afr to work the system a bit.
But good for afr to work the system a bit.
01-31-2019, 09:42 PM
#39
Good idea on the 241s. Idk how technical their inspections get . I thought as long as the emissions was left in place say putting a ls6 in it would be legal. I guess they can get pretty picky if they actually want you to keep the same head that's on the car.
But good for afr to work the system a bit.
But good for afr to work the system a bit.