243 heads/ws6 store hot cam/fast 92mm intake and TB
03-19-2019, 08:33 PM
#101
My 91 RS got the Hawk's 8.8 at Hawk's Motorsports when the car was fully restored and LS swapped in 2015. The RS already had a set of UMI rear LCAs & an UMI adjustable Panhard. It all bolted up with no issue and was reused. The RS was already lowered so the adj Panhard was needed to center the 8.8, just like with the old 10-bolt.
Really swapping in the 8.8 is very similar to just swapping 10-bolts. I've done that's several times. It's critical to have the torque specs and a good torque wrench. Let me hunt around and see if I can find the write up I followed the first time. It sort ones like this : Get car on jack stands. Secure and scotch front wheels. Remove rear wheels, remove brakes, Undo drive shaft, Undo bolts LCA bolts attached to rear end, undo Panhard bolt, undo bottom shock bolts, drop rear end out, swap in replacement and reverse order. Use the correct loctite on the brake bolts and backing plates. Nylocks come loose. Dealing with the brake lines and moving the metal line on the rear end over is the most annoying part. Bleed brakes.
You should be able to reuse your stock backing plates and that will save $200 or so.
Ryan @ Hawk's Motorsports is very good at explanation and details. Bruce (owner) & Tyler (owners son) are too. I suggest giving them a call and discussin an 8.8 rear.
Easy break in for ~500 miles helps keep the rear quiet. Several heat cycles and short trips help too. After 500 miles I like to change rear end fluid to get all the break in particles out.
It will sometime tomorrow on finding the swap write up.
Edit - PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench can be helpful with corroded bolts if you have to deal with thise.
Really swapping in the 8.8 is very similar to just swapping 10-bolts. I've done that's several times. It's critical to have the torque specs and a good torque wrench. Let me hunt around and see if I can find the write up I followed the first time. It sort ones like this : Get car on jack stands. Secure and scotch front wheels. Remove rear wheels, remove brakes, Undo drive shaft, Undo bolts LCA bolts attached to rear end, undo Panhard bolt, undo bottom shock bolts, drop rear end out, swap in replacement and reverse order. Use the correct loctite on the brake bolts and backing plates. Nylocks come loose. Dealing with the brake lines and moving the metal line on the rear end over is the most annoying part. Bleed brakes.
You should be able to reuse your stock backing plates and that will save $200 or so.
Ryan @ Hawk's Motorsports is very good at explanation and details. Bruce (owner) & Tyler (owners son) are too. I suggest giving them a call and discussin an 8.8 rear.
Easy break in for ~500 miles helps keep the rear quiet. Several heat cycles and short trips help too. After 500 miles I like to change rear end fluid to get all the break in particles out.
It will sometime tomorrow on finding the swap write up.
Edit - PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench can be helpful with corroded bolts if you have to deal with thise.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 03-20-2019 at 05:31 AM.
03-19-2019, 09:07 PM
#102
My 91 RS got the Hawk's 8.8 at Hawk's Motorsports when the car was fully restored and LS swapped in 2015. The RS already had a set of UMI rear LCAs & an UMI adjustable Panhard. It all bolted up with no issue and was reused. The RS was already lowered so the adj Panhard was needed to center the 8.8, just like with the old 10-bolt.
Really swapping in the 8.8 is very similar to just swapping 10-bolts. I've done that's several times. It's critical to have the torque specs and a good torque wrench. Let me hunt around and see if I can find the write up I followed the first time. It sort ones like this : Get car on jack stands. Secure and scotch front wheels. Remove rear wheels, remove brakes, Undo drive shaft, Undo bolts LCA bolts attached to rear end, undo Panhard bolt, undo bottom shock bolts, drop rear end out, swap in replacement and reverse order. Use the correct loctite on the brake bolts and backing plates. Nylocks come loose. Dealing with the brake lines and moving the metal line on the rear end over is the most annoying part. Bleed brakes.
You should be able to reuse your stock backing plates and that will save $200 or so.
Ryan @ Hawk's Motorsports is very good at explanation and details. Bruce (owner) & Tyler (owners son) are too. I suggest giving them a call and discussin an 8.8 rear.
Easy break in for ~500 miles helps keep the rear quiet. Several heat cycles and short trips help too. After 500 miles I like to change rear end fluid to get all the break in particles out.
It will sometime tomorrow on finding the swap write up.
Really swapping in the 8.8 is very similar to just swapping 10-bolts. I've done that's several times. It's critical to have the torque specs and a good torque wrench. Let me hunt around and see if I can find the write up I followed the first time. It sort ones like this : Get car on jack stands. Secure and scotch front wheels. Remove rear wheels, remove brakes, Undo drive shaft, Undo bolts LCA bolts attached to rear end, undo Panhard bolt, undo bottom shock bolts, drop rear end out, swap in replacement and reverse order. Use the correct loctite on the brake bolts and backing plates. Nylocks come loose. Dealing with the brake lines and moving the metal line on the rear end over is the most annoying part. Bleed brakes.
You should be able to reuse your stock backing plates and that will save $200 or so.
Ryan @ Hawk's Motorsports is very good at explanation and details. Bruce (owner) & Tyler (owners son) are too. I suggest giving them a call and discussin an 8.8 rear.
Easy break in for ~500 miles helps keep the rear quiet. Several heat cycles and short trips help too. After 500 miles I like to change rear end fluid to get all the break in particles out.
It will sometime tomorrow on finding the swap write up.
Thanks for your .02, will be calling them soon.
03-20-2019, 05:44 AM
#103
The non-adjustable UMI torque arm should fit.
BTW - PB Blaster & liquid wrench can help with stubborn bolts. Sounds like the UMI LCA'S And Panhard are fairly recent so most of it should be pretty easy.
Park brake cables can be annoying sometimes.
iMHO - a lot of folks bitch (3rd Gen owners mostly) about Hawk's prices but Hawk's does bring out a lot of parts for our cars. I've gotten many parts I can't find anywhere else from Hawk's. I've know Bruce since like 2000-2001 when the business opened and started with ten junk cars in the back yard. I've always had a good experience with them.
If you talk with Ryan or Bruce or Tyler tell them Wade with the one owner, 400,000 mile white 91 RS they did the restoration and LS swap for said hello.
BTW - PB Blaster & liquid wrench can help with stubborn bolts. Sounds like the UMI LCA'S And Panhard are fairly recent so most of it should be pretty easy.
Park brake cables can be annoying sometimes.
iMHO - a lot of folks bitch (3rd Gen owners mostly) about Hawk's prices but Hawk's does bring out a lot of parts for our cars. I've gotten many parts I can't find anywhere else from Hawk's. I've know Bruce since like 2000-2001 when the business opened and started with ten junk cars in the back yard. I've always had a good experience with them.
If you talk with Ryan or Bruce or Tyler tell them Wade with the one owner, 400,000 mile white 91 RS they did the restoration and LS swap for said hello.
03-20-2019, 06:28 AM
#104
Regarding the exhaust: another option is to port your exhaust manifolds. There's a company called SoCal Porting that does an excellent job. On the LT1 C7, adding an aftermarket CAI & Borla off-road x-pipe, everyone was running the stock tune, no problem. When I added the ported exhaust manifolds to my setup I threw a lean code and then needed to get it tuned, so I know they flow better. Obviously headers would be preferred, but in the OP's situation, it's an option.
Regarding the E85/flexfuel: you really need a static compression ratio of 11.5:1 (or higher) to take advantage of the additional timing you can run. While you may see 10-15hp with a lower CR (and every little bit helps), the additional costs for your fuel system upgrades may not be worth it. On my current setup, LS1 with 1 3/4" long tube headers, Callaway CAI, true duals & bullet catback, I'm at 81.3% injector duty cycle which is the limit for all reasonable purposes. Fuel pump, injectors, sensor, installation labor, tuning...my napkin estimate puts me at about $5k. Not worth the 10hp for me, but I have other options where I'm not as constrained as the OP.
Regarding the E85/flexfuel: you really need a static compression ratio of 11.5:1 (or higher) to take advantage of the additional timing you can run. While you may see 10-15hp with a lower CR (and every little bit helps), the additional costs for your fuel system upgrades may not be worth it. On my current setup, LS1 with 1 3/4" long tube headers, Callaway CAI, true duals & bullet catback, I'm at 81.3% injector duty cycle which is the limit for all reasonable purposes. Fuel pump, injectors, sensor, installation labor, tuning...my napkin estimate puts me at about $5k. Not worth the 10hp for me, but I have other options where I'm not as constrained as the OP.
03-20-2019, 02:24 PM
#105
The non-adjustable UMI torque arm should fit.
BTW - PB Blaster & liquid wrench can help with stubborn bolts. Sounds like the UMI LCA'S And Panhard are fairly recent so most of it should be pretty easy.
Park brake cables can be annoying sometimes.
iMHO - a lot of folks bitch (3rd Gen owners mostly) about Hawk's prices but Hawk's does bring out a lot of parts for our cars. I've gotten many parts I can't find anywhere else from Hawk's. I've know Bruce since like 2000-2001 when the business opened and started with ten junk cars in the back yard. I've always had a good experience with them.
If you talk with Ryan or Bruce or Tyler tell them Wade with the one owner, 400,000 mile white 91 RS they did the restoration and LS swap for said hello.
BTW - PB Blaster & liquid wrench can help with stubborn bolts. Sounds like the UMI LCA'S And Panhard are fairly recent so most of it should be pretty easy.
Park brake cables can be annoying sometimes.
iMHO - a lot of folks bitch (3rd Gen owners mostly) about Hawk's prices but Hawk's does bring out a lot of parts for our cars. I've gotten many parts I can't find anywhere else from Hawk's. I've know Bruce since like 2000-2001 when the business opened and started with ten junk cars in the back yard. I've always had a good experience with them.
If you talk with Ryan or Bruce or Tyler tell them Wade with the one owner, 400,000 mile white 91 RS they did the restoration and LS swap for said hello.
do you happen to know if I will have any issues if I run a 17x9.5 with 305/45/17 in the back?
03-20-2019, 08:18 PM
#106
Tires and Wheels everything thing you should know
There's a nice stock in the tire & wheel forum with a lot of links. I've always found this one very helpful for Fitment. There's a lot of excellent info.
For a 305 width tire, I would want a 10.5 or wider rear rim.
My fiancee's son had a pair of 4th Gen fbody 17x11 Fikse FM10's with 315/35R17 tires on the rear of his 3rd Gen Z28
Took a pair of spacers, rolling fender lip and some clearance work with a big hammer by the prior owner to get them to fit.
03-21-2019, 12:15 PM
#107
The 305/45 is a 28" tire. Nothing wrong with that but you may need to massage some things to keep it from rubbing.
I had fikse FM5's also. 17x11 on the rear with 315/35r17. You need to beat in the inner fender a bit with a sledge hammer and roll the fenders and you're golden.
Lowered on 28" slicks I had to trim my bumper a bit to clear the slicks but everything else was fine, and again mine was lowered, but also already clearances for the Fikses
The 28's freaked out my ABS bad with 26" fronts. So I had to pull the ABS fuse to keep it from going crazy and messing up the brakes, the ABS will activate when you hit the brakes and it doesn't stop well.
03-22-2019, 11:49 AM
#108
OP, ever get the car going right? I did a ws6 store hot cam but I never fired it until I had a pcmforless tune in it. Zero lights, zero problems. Curious how it does with heads and intake. I love mine but im always looking into the future of things I want to do, Intake is one of them forsure.
03-22-2019, 03:22 PM
#109
OP, ever get the car going right? I did a ws6 store hot cam but I never fired it until I had a pcmforless tune in it. Zero lights, zero problems. Curious how it does with heads and intake. I love mine but im always looking into the future of things I want to do, Intake is one of them forsure.
Well i got 410rwhp with 243 p&p heads
with stock sodium filled valves on BTR platinum dual springs
and fast combo with double roller timing chain
hv oil pump push rods, shorties and slp y pipe with lid and 32lb injectors..
Drivability wise it is amazing power when you need it and not bad on fuel. A little sluggish down low but super good high end..I don’t know what you would get from just the ws6 store cam by itself though..
03-22-2019, 10:29 PM
#110
Seems low, but all dynos are different. some guys saw 390rwhp cam only, I estimate I'm at 375hp, I'd rather be wrong on the low side. I run a trailblazer stall and 3.73 rear...all it does it spin down low lol. What gears are you running?
03-23-2019, 09:47 AM
#111
thats what I thought! But the tech on here says it’s dam impressive..
I am on stock 10 bolt, but soon will be on hawks 8.8 3.73 and Mickey Thompsons with sophn driveshaft.
with this current set up I beat a cls AmG, not off the line bc I spun but it took him after 2nd. A meth injected raptor as well, a scrat pack on semi beat me off the line and caught up almost at the end..but rolling starts none kept up..
03-23-2019, 09:56 AM
#112
Thats more impressive than me, I could’ve just spent $400 and be at 390-375..you’re not scared of internal failure? It is a high lift cam and the engine is being forced Way more than stock..the CLS AMG is rated a bit higher than 500hp so I’m hoping the dyno was off a bit, once I get the true dual will go back for a re tune..
03-23-2019, 01:34 PM
#113
Its not THAT high on lift :-)
And as far as forced more than normal? Id say thats not really an issue.
Orig hot cam is .525. Ours is .600.
Its .075 more valve lift. Lets put that in fractional terms. Thats less than 5/64ths of an inch difference if you want to look at that on a tape measure or ruler. A tiny bit makes a huge difference. its actually 3/40ths but thats not an easy number to see on a household item.
And as far as forced more than normal? Id say thats not really an issue.
Orig hot cam is .525. Ours is .600.
Its .075 more valve lift. Lets put that in fractional terms. Thats less than 5/64ths of an inch difference if you want to look at that on a tape measure or ruler. A tiny bit makes a huge difference. its actually 3/40ths but thats not an easy number to see on a household item.
03-23-2019, 03:26 PM
#114
Its not THAT high on lift :-)
And as far as forced more than normal? Id say thats not really an issue.
Orig hot cam is .525. Ours is .600.
Its .075 more valve lift. Lets put that in fractional terms. Thats less than 5/64ths of an inch difference if you want to look at that on a tape measure or ruler. A tiny bit makes a huge difference. its actually 3/40ths but thats not an easy number to see on a household item.
And as far as forced more than normal? Id say thats not really an issue.
Orig hot cam is .525. Ours is .600.
Its .075 more valve lift. Lets put that in fractional terms. Thats less than 5/64ths of an inch difference if you want to look at that on a tape measure or ruler. A tiny bit makes a huge difference. its actually 3/40ths but thats not an easy number to see on a household item.
03-23-2019, 03:38 PM
#115
You cannot use the gm hot cam on a stock spring either unless you have the ls6 springs. We have never recommended nor said that our cam works with stock springs though so i am not sure where you are going with that. Our high lift hot cam definitely wont work on stock or ls6 springs.
As fas as numbers, every dyno reads different and every build and tuner is different so i cannot quote an exact rwhp to use. I have seen some pretty substantial gains from what you posted as well as others. More than i imagined really.
Our prototype made more hp and the same tq as the gm hot cam and pulled about 300rpm farther also. And we changed the design after that also.
Without actual dyno graphs its hard to say also and i dont like saying too much without the graphs to use as comparison.
As fas as numbers, every dyno reads different and every build and tuner is different so i cannot quote an exact rwhp to use. I have seen some pretty substantial gains from what you posted as well as others. More than i imagined really.
Our prototype made more hp and the same tq as the gm hot cam and pulled about 300rpm farther also. And we changed the design after that also.
Without actual dyno graphs its hard to say also and i dont like saying too much without the graphs to use as comparison.
Last edited by tech@WS6store; 03-23-2019 at 03:44 PM.
03-23-2019, 03:42 PM
#116
i always seen it like this.... most of these cars nowadays are reaching the 100k mark. if you cant afford some springs when your swapping a cam then you shouldnt be buying a cam. idc how budget you are, wait anther week or 2 if you need to save up more. no reason to **** up your build over a few bucks and a stupid mistake.
03-23-2019, 03:56 PM
#118
You cannot use the gm hot cam on a stock spring either unless you have the ls6 springs. We have never recommended nor said that our cam works with stock springs though so i am not sure where you are going with that. Our high lift hot cam definitely wont work on stock or ls6 springs.
As fas as numbers, every dyno reads different and every build and tuner is different so i cannot quote an exact rwhp to use. I have seen some pretty substantial gains from what you posted as well as others. More than i imagined really.
Our prototype made more hp and the same tq as the gm hot cam and pulled about 300rpm farther also. And we changed the design after that also.
Without actual dyno graphs its hard to say also and i dont like saying too much without the graphs to use as comparison.
As fas as numbers, every dyno reads different and every build and tuner is different so i cannot quote an exact rwhp to use. I have seen some pretty substantial gains from what you posted as well as others. More than i imagined really.
Our prototype made more hp and the same tq as the gm hot cam and pulled about 300rpm farther also. And we changed the design after that also.
Without actual dyno graphs its hard to say also and i dont like saying too much without the graphs to use as comparison.
03-23-2019, 03:58 PM
#119
You cannot use the gm hot cam on a stock spring either unless you have the ls6 springs. We have never recommended nor said that our cam works with stock springs though so i am not sure where you are going with that. Our high lift hot cam definitely wont work on stock or ls6 springs.
As fas as numbers, every dyno reads different and every build and tuner is different so i cannot quote an exact rwhp to use. I have seen some pretty substantial gains from what you posted as well as others. More than i imagined really.
Our prototype made more hp and the same tq as the gm hot cam and pulled about 300rpm farther also. And we changed the design after that also.
Without actual dyno graphs its hard to say also and i dont like saying too much without the graphs to use as comparison.
As fas as numbers, every dyno reads different and every build and tuner is different so i cannot quote an exact rwhp to use. I have seen some pretty substantial gains from what you posted as well as others. More than i imagined really.
Our prototype made more hp and the same tq as the gm hot cam and pulled about 300rpm farther also. And we changed the design after that also.
Without actual dyno graphs its hard to say also and i dont like saying too much without the graphs to use as comparison.
03-23-2019, 04:01 PM
#120
i always seen it like this.... most of these cars nowadays are reaching the 100k mark. if you cant afford some springs when your swapping a cam then you shouldnt be buying a cam. idc how budget you are, wait anther week or 2 if you need to save up more. no reason to **** up your build over a few bucks and a stupid mistake.