F'ing needle bearings! Welp... add me to the list of victims of "The Great LS1 Rocker Needle Bearing Migration". Oil change today revealed needle bearings on the magnet and in the drain pan. Luckily, I had not heard anything that made me think there was something wrong with the motor, so I think I dodged a bullet! Ordered the RPM Speed Max Effort rockers from WS6 Store. Add that to the new tires and front end alignment, and this has been an expensive week! |
Glad you caught it before it damaged anything. |
You dodged a mortar shell! |
You learned the hard way to always use bushed. Not ever worth the chance regardless of what some might say. Way too many failures. |
Originally Posted by TTur1996
(Post 20287287)
You learned the hard way to always use bushed. Not ever worth the chance regardless of what some might say. Way too many failures. Statistically, the stock rockers with the uncaged needle bearings are a non-issue. |
Are you gonna chance it and simply put new bushed rockers in it or tear it down to make sure you removed all foreign material? Sucks to be you right now but I'd pull it apart to make certain. You could possibly figure out how many needles are in each rocker and do some math. |
Originally Posted by TTur1996
(Post 20287287)
You learned the hard way to always use bushed. Not ever worth the chance regardless of what some might say. Way too many failures. |
Originally Posted by showdog75
(Post 20287298)
Are you gonna chance it and simply put new bushed rockers in it or tear it down to make sure you removed all foreign material? Sucks to be you right now but I'd pull it apart to make certain. You could possibly figure out how many needles are in each rocker and do some math. If I have to tear the motor down, it will be to ditch the LS1 block and heads anyway. |
Can I rotate the motor with the serpentine belt still on? |
Originally Posted by G Atsma
(Post 20287297)
From hanging around here, one COULD draw that conclusion. HOWEVER, remember the millions of LS engines in use with stock rockers with no issues. Statistically, the stock rockers with the uncaged needle bearings are a non-issue. |
I have seen many lifters break in half at the trunion on crazy ass boosted motors. What do you think happens to the needle bearings? Bushed lifters just need to be swapped out. Unless there is a way to account for every needle like that has been already stated. There is no way I would run that motor without tearing it apart. Who knows though, you may get lucky. |
I did not mean to say it does not happen. But you make it sound like a common disease with all stock rockers. If you narrow it down to higher ("competition level") performance situations, THEN it is an issue. |
Stock trunnions come apart with a hammer and chisel. The max effort rockers will not come apart unless you damage the rocker, like cut it open to remove the trunnion. If this happens in your engine, it wouldnt matter what you were using, engine is kaput. Needle bearings have less surface area that means less friction and less heat. Bushed materials are more for race applications where bushings are inspected and changed often. |
Originally Posted by Bspeck82
(Post 20287528)
Stock trunnions come apart with a hammer and chisel. The max effort rockers will not come apart unless you damage the rocker, like cut it open to remove the trunnion. If this happens in your engine, it wouldnt matter what you were using, engine is kaput. Needle bearings have less surface area that means less friction and less heat. Bushed materials are more for race applications where bushings are inspected and changed often. |
You will like the rockers. I've been running the max effort rockers in my new engine turning it 6950 rpm. https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...cee93a7f58.png |
I am going to try to get tomorrow and Wednesday off. I should be able to get the old rockers off tomorrow, and install the new ones Wednesday. |
Originally Posted by FCar2000TA
(Post 20287731)
I am going to try to get tomorrow and Wednesday off. I should be able to get the old rockers off tomorrow, and install the new ones Wednesday. |
Had the same issue with the com cam trunion upgraded rockers and went back to OEM. Bought a bunch of neodyium magnets on extensions. I start my needle bearing hunt next week. Tentative plan is pull valve covers, intake/valley cover, and oil pan. |
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...5df24e9f68.jpg One side of one rocker came apart. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...8a8797eccb.jpg It was still pretty centered. |
Since only one side spilled, there should be 16 - 17 bearings, right? The shop showed me 5 and said that at least 10-12 fell on the floor. |
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