misterwaterfallin

Let me know if you want to sell that ls3 intake for something else, I’m looking for one

grinder11

iTrader: (1)

We ALL need such problems!!

slowride

iTrader: (3)

IDK most of these dynos would just use a calibrated load cell, a known length lever arm and that measures torque, then it's multiplied by rpm to generate HP it's pretty simple. The only odd things would be any correction from atmospheric conditions and the fact it's all measured in gross with no parasitic load and having optimum exhaust and intake flow.

1988montecarloss

iTrader: (6)

you could still use the ls3 on the 6.2....then just sell the crankshaft

Utinator

Well yeah, West tech dynos engines under optimal conditions. Once you add accessories and street legal exhaust, the numbers go down. Richard Holdener also did a test showing the effects of adding accessories and exhaust. That’s how GM tests their engines. I dyno tested my 5.3L the same way West tech does, and got similar results. If you build and test an engine the same way Richard Holdener does, you will get the same result. That’s what I mean by his test results being repeatable. Each dyno could be slightly different, but his tests give you a good idea of what to expect.

slowride

iTrader: (3)

Correct and only my point is that the way west tech tests is normal and just like every machine/engine shop engine dyno across the country would operate other than a OE company testing in a lab where all conditions and emissions can be held to a tight spec. In a lab a known backpressure, intake restriction, parasitic restriction, fuel and intake air temp, etc are all under tight control, they are tuning for an application and not just raw numbers. It would be impossible for smaller performance shops to duplicate anything the OE does with any reliability.

Utinator

True, but I’m not sure you would want to duplicate anything that comes from the factory. Isn’t that why most of us are here…? We’re still not making enough power! Lol

slowride

iTrader: (3)

Oh I agree with you, I just feel people think these engine dynos are too generous when in fact they are very repeatable across the country from shop to shop. It's the same number all the circle jerk guys would use, tractor puller engines, even the old school guys 3/4 cam hopping coke cans engine lol. The number is more generous than the current OE numbers (gross vs net) but who cares what the numbers are vs the gains from start to finish. None of us know what net hp would be even with all the accessories hooked up, we would need to load them, control way too many things to make it work etc so we go by gross if it's a typical shop engine dyno. I don't think anyone is trying to trick people here it's just the way things are done in general.

Utinator

Yep. I think people just need to understand how an engine is setup on a dyno is different from how it’s setup in a vehicle. Richard Holdener does a good job of explaining his setup. Not all dyno videos explain how they got the numbers. You will always see lower numbers in a vehicle than in an engine dyno.

I like to compare engine dyno numbers, because it’s a more fair way of comparison. When you talk about wheel hp, there are too many variables that result in that number. I eventually want to engine dyno my next engine build, then chassis dyno it in the car. We like guestimate a certain percentage of drivetrain loss, but it’s still just a guess. I want to find out exactly how much I’m losing from the engine to the wheels. Maybe I’ll get to test it one of these days.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

I agree *some* engine dynos are repeatable. But West Techs is still WAY off IMO. Close friend owns a chassis dyno... and many others do as well. Good example in the newish "Stay Tuned" episode. Brad at PSR performance dyno/tunes TONS of LS motors. With out even looking at the motor the guy guessed the exact amount of power it would make and was right. Because a healthy "JY special" cam'd 6.0 through a 4l80e will make right around 350hp +/- 5% almost every time. You can pretty much bet the farm on it. This 6.0 has a stg 3 summit NA cam 232/242 113 .600 +3 cam. Fresh milled heads, intake, etc. Basically a healthy 6.0 with the accessories most use.


Yet Holdner tested a very similar stg 1 2 & 3 btr cams on a bone yard 6.0 and made 474, 494, and 504. Now I'm not rocket scientist... but that's a 154hp difference. So that's over 30% loss from crank to whp! I'm sorry, but a 4l80e and a few accessories doesn't eat 30% of the crank HP!

The numbers simply don't add up. Which would easily be seen if you put his "600-900 CHP" motors in a car and ran it at the track. Its also why I have a gripe about his turbo setups. When the dyno is inflated a ton, that is compounded when you add boost. Which is why he is stuck thinking he is making 900-1000hp easily with T4 turbo at 15-16lbs. Which is nonsense! A 78/75 at 15lbs isn't making 900+hp on a 6.0 or a 5.3. Not even close. And if you want a real 900-1000hp people should be looking into BIG T6 units or even twins.

Utinator

Well, as I said before, there are too many variables when you use a chassis dyno. My 224/228 cammed LS1 with 4L80 made 382hp at the wheel. That’s way more than the 6.0l you were just talking about. That shouldn’t be possible. So like I said, too many variables at the wheel. The crank hp is more reliable for comparison numbers.

slowride

iTrader: (3)

IDK I don't agree, I think you are viewing 1000whp through a 6.0 and 4l80 as the norm, I find that number much more impressive(I think most of us would also) than a engine dyno or manual trans car on the chassis dyno. You have a big heavy trans, unknown converter slip (if not locked) etc. At 1000whp through a unlocked 4l80 you could swap it to a manual and make 1100-1150whp easy and it's still the real number for both transmissions setups either way. Autos color the dyno results too much for me to really care about the actual shape of the curve as the converter just messes up the results, but it makes for one fast ride I get it.

I believe that west tech dyno, with a bone stock ls1 makes around 390ish so thats 40hp over GM and totally believable. Now that engine has no belt on the crank, no intake tube, long tube headers with no exhaust and tuning to optimize AFR and timing. You act like you are insulted by any other numbers other than stalled auto whp, but I believe you are making more power than you think when running a heavy drive train and that's not a bad thing, whp number from an auto do not set the standards as most informed people would consider them to rob the most power so how is that the norm? I've worked in OE engine dynos, I've set up chassis load brakes, load cells and done all the calibrations myself which are held to high standards for data collection, I'm just giving my real world thoughts on this. I'm sure we will agree to disagree forever on this, but it's good for the forum

98LS1auto

iTrader: (3)

My car has 383. 9.5 compression. You can see times in sig. I think it runs great for the compression.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

The dyno is just a tool to tune/test before and after changes. They can vary a TON.

What did your 382 WHP car trap and what was its weight?

Weight VS trap speed VS distance doesn't lie. If you know the cars weight and trap speed in the 1/4, you can calculate the power its making If the dyno numbers don't jive with that, then something is off.

What I'm saying is going off many years of personal experience at the track knowing my vehicles weight. I know what a mild cam JY 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 make at X,Y,Z boost levels. So I can easily see Holdners numbers are inflated. That same 154HP difference NA translates to 308HP at 15-16psi! Which is why his boosted numbers are so off.

Holdners awesome! I watch his stuff all the time and talk to him on his live sessions quite a bit. What rubs me the wrong way is him stating "You don't need a T6 turbo for applications up to 1000HP" (which were his exact words to me speaking about a 6.0) That's nonsense! He would easily see that if he put any of those "1000hp" setups in a car and raced it.

Utinator

I have no idea what my car weighs. I really would like to find out some day. It's probably heavier than average. That might explain why my car is much slower than most others with similar mods. Shortly after it was chassis dyno tuned in Virginia, it ran about a 12.3 sec 1/4 mile at 112mph. The last time I was at the track here in Texas, it ran a 13.0 at 108mph.

I think I have seen the racing calculators that use the 1/4 mile time, vehicle weight, etc to calculate your eng. HP. I have never seen one of those calculators factor in all of the variables. Those calculators are never going to be as accurate as a dyno. If you want to figure HP based on a 1/4 mile time, then you need other bits of information, like windage and drag coefficient. Some of those variables change constantly, so you won't get an accurate calculation. I think you are making more power than you think.

Utinator

Nice! You must have the suspension dialed in. I want to work on my suspension next.

jhshnh

Thats a really good 60’ time too. What part of NC? I’m on the coast.

Doug G

Dyno's CAN BE "tweaked" to inflate numbers by changing parameters OR if out of calibration... As I understand.

IF they are calibrated correctly, and use the same parameters, they "should be" very close, with-in a certain percentage.

Think about 20 motors built identical...they will all vary a fuzz.

98LS1auto

iTrader: (3)

Yeh its got it all. dbl adj lca, dbl adj panhard, vikings in front and rear, drag bar, moser 9 with 370 gear. 275/60/15 MT R's help also.

98LS1auto

iTrader: (3)

Up here in Kernersville. The Triad, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, High Point. My best 60 was a 1.43 but not on my best pass. If I could get that or 1.40 I think it might go a 6.7 something in the 1/8. Maybe. Lol.