Experience with Howard's cams?
 

I was looking at the first, third and fourth cams below. This is for an 04 gto with an OTR intake, shorty headers, 2.5" high flow catted mids. And magnaflow CB with xpipe. M6 and 3.42 gears.

I love the 224/230, .609, .604, 110+4. Would be a beast everywhere and even better than the asa cam since it would be slightly better down low with the smaller intake duration. And it would probably carry higher than the asa with the increased lift. Overlap is 7 so it wouldn't be super smooth at low speeds. The 112+4 version would be much better in that regard.

However the 218/224 cam would be a beast down low. It would lack some up top for sure though.

Thoughts on these for my setup? I also really like the summit 8720. Looking forward to seeing what their new single plane cams are.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...48ab55d566.jpg

I run Howard's cams in most of my personal setups with amazing success.

The 2nd cam, 222/225 112 LSA has been a favorite of mine for years. One of those in a gen 4 5.3 with long tubes and a tune did just shy of 430 horsepower on my buddies engine dyno and we made great power on multiple cars on his chassis dyno with it. Its also extremely easy on the valvetrain. I'm putting another one in a car in the next few weeks.

if you dont plan on changing out the 3.42 gears i would go with the first 218/224 cam

The car needs gears DESPERATELY. You might be AMAZED at how much better that will make the car drive all by itself without any other changes. With those pitiful highway gears your stock cam is almost too much already. More cam would just make the car slower on the street. You don't say what you're using the car for or what you want out of it butt I see "daily driver" written all over your post; correct me if I'm wrong.

The first or second cam would be my suggestion.

Howard's is a good dependable old-skool kind of product line. You're not ever going to get "The Best" or "The Latest & Greatest" or ""The Most" profiles from them, but they're a ... dependable old-skool kind of deal. You're not going "wrong" by using them.

I agree with 1988montecarloss, I have a similar cam to number 2 on your listed posting but from Comp. with a 3:55 gear now. Like the cam but I'm in the process of building a stronger rear end with a 3:73 gearing that will mate up nicely with my TKX 5 speed in my 1st gen Camaro.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/ls1tech...a85288c263.png


Here's another one from Howards same specs as #1 with a 113 LSA.
https://www.howardscams.com/hydrauli...cams-190395-13

The fourth cam with some 3.75+/- gears would be beastly. Its 112LSA will keep it a bit more civilized.
5th and 6th gears will maintain decent fuel economy even with the new gears.

i agree with this statement as well. the shorter gears and the cam lsa would sound more tame but still have plenty of power from low to high rpm

You would notice the power loss below 2500rpm even with the 212/218 115 Cam spec. If you leave the 3.42 in there the nicest driver is going to be the 204/222 112 It will still leave a little on the table below 2500 over the stock cam though anything with more lift and duration over stock will do that. The more "noise" The cam makes at lower speeds and the less power you have there over stock, well it gets pretty annoying really quick, instead of shifting to keep the revs down, you'll be revving higher holding the gears just to keep up. 4.10 at a minimum but 4.30 would be nice. This is why all the oe's have the 6-speed 8-speed 10-speed automatics now because even with the larger engines, those big rectangular ports cylinder heads kill the bottom end Torque, think about it, They get better fuel mileage because they have more control over the combustion as they've slowed down the air velocity with those big ass ports and valves.
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Headers and the best intake on the market aren't required even for a big cam. It will run fine. It just won't make as much power as it would with the headers and the good intake But regardless the cam shifts the RPM band it always does and that you will feel without the gearing or a stall converter if you have an automatic.

This is why the 226/230 112 didn't impress me over the 212/218. It lost noticable power below the mid-range though it gained some above the top but not much while making a whole bunch more noise with my setup, So basically the car was noisier and slower in the RPM range that we drive it in all day which is below 4K RPM. The 212 218 115 still added most of power above 4K the 226 had though not quite much, but it didn't make any more noise than stock. It was a bigger cam that wasn't big enough for the 6.2 (For the trade-off more duration would have been acceptable So I've decided to go even bigger) But if you had the 4.10s in your gto the summit 226/230 112+4 is awesome in a 5.7 I had it in mine It was great there.
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We can't have everything with the camshaft I realize that so I've made up my mind to go bigger again like I have in the past because I've ran a bunch of different cams and any of them that make noise are going to make the best power up high (overlap) But there's that trade-off I've realized that for my setup if I'm going to take the "noise" The 226/230 simply isn't big enough, the 220/224 115-4 got me to the RPM range I needed but I'm kidding myself but if I don't think there's any more power up there , I could go with a tight LSA or I could go with a wide one but it's duration my engine really needs more of to make the power up high that I really want so I need a 232° plus intake duration For where I want to go, I've got a stall converter. I don't lug the engine below 2500 unless the converter is locked and cruising though I drive it all the time

The cam challenge is exciting because these engines can make incredible power from 4K on up if you're willing to put up with the trade-off, I think I got caught up in thinking that there was some " magical" spec in between all of the ones that I've ran that would make better power than all of them and that simply isn't how it works I literally have to redact everything I write on here,

You've read a lot on here and I think you understand what's happening but you haven't cammed a vehicle before. Nobody here is lying when they say it's going to be worse no matter what cam you put in there if you leave the 3.42.

This is why back in the old stickies everybody recommends gears for 6-speed cars and converters for autos

I forgot to add that the last Howard's camshaft I ran was a flat tappet I ordered from a competition products catalog 20 years ago and it broke into the lifters easy and ran just fine it was for an old 307ci sbc build

Im surprised you think 3.42 gears are that small. Usually gto guys with stock gears are good until the cams hit about 230 intake duration. GTO, G8, and f-bodies all with automatics have gears around 2.9, so I thought 3.42 was pretty ample for a smaller cam with low to mid 220s intake duration?

"GTO guys" aren't exempt somehow from the mathematical relationship between engine RPM and vehicle speed. That's beyond illogical.

The auto LS1 F bodies usually has gears more like 3.42, with the stick cars often getting 3.73. It's AMAZING how much difference there is between them. Most especially with the 2.6x ratio of the T-56 1st gear. If your car has 2.9something you're DEFINITELY in Gear Hell.

The impact of gearing on vehicle performance is not affected by the wrinkles in the sheet metal or the stickers on the outside. The only other detail of a car that has a bearing on it, is tire size. Which is why truck people so often go to 4.56 and such when they put on bigger tires.

A4 and M6 GTO came with 3.42:1

Have you ever ridden a mountain bike before? Change the gears yourself and pedaled on them? Imagine your legs are skinnier and weaker but you can pedal them at a faster speed, how would you ride the bike? Would you take off in the same gear you used when your legs were stronger but they couldn't pedal as fast?

​​​​​​ Stop regurgitating and recommending things to people in other threads when you still have no idea what you're doing or talking about. You haven't modded a car before it's obvious and Sometimes to mod the car you have to mod the car and there it goes. So go on and make your mistakes and figure it out

Do you mean autos typically upgrade to 3.42 and stick cars upgrade to 3.73? I read the below:

As far as V8 F-body cars go:
All 6 speed cars have 3.42 gearing.
Z28 A4 will have 2.73 standard with 3.23 optional.
SS A4 has 3.23 standard.

I did get it wrong about GTO A4s having 2.9x. Both A4 and M6 GTOs have 3.46. I guess I had 3.42 stuck in my head from f-bodies. G8s do indeed have A6s with 2.9x rear gears and typically upgrade to 3.45s.

I know how gears work. It's pretty basic stuff. I meant that on ls1gto, you normally wouldn't hear of guys needing a gear upgrade for drivability reasons until intake durations got above 230. Would it help acceleration? Sure, especially with a cam upgrade. Many guys just wouldn't bother from what I've seen except with a larger cam.

I appreciated your detailed response farther up. This post no so much lol. Yeah I've never did a cam swap myself. I have read for countless hours from people who have done them though and their experiences, results, etc. Maybe part of the problem is that I'm a Solution Architect by trade. I have a lot of knowledge about the hardware and software we sell, but I am not the one who physically implements it. Similar to on here. Yes experience is very important, but knowledge is far from useless.

I've modded my car. Modified the car for an OTR intake, swapped the entire exhaust with aftermarket, upgraded a lot of the suspension including many bushings, struts, shocks, springs, etc. Went from an 04 GTO cooling system to 05-06. I document some of the obscure stuff I do on youtube to try to help people out who might search for a DIY video. I've never done engine work though. But one day soon I will.

No; I mean all the rest of that CRAP you posted is CRAP.

The auto LS1 F bodies come mostly if not all with 3.42. The stick ones come with mostly 3.42 butt a fair number with 3.73. SS/ WS6 cars all got upgraded to 3.73 if they didn't already have that ratio, and a stouter posi.

Sounds like you got the specs for 3rd gen 305 TPI conflated with LS1s somehow.

All that CRAP you posted is just that, CRAP.

Pop your rear cover off. Since you OBVIOUSLY haven't done that, you OBVIOUSLY need to, since that's how you catch up on the OBVIOUSLY deferred maintenance you've OBVIOUSLY been putting off for however long you've had that car. While you're maintaining your car properly, LOOK AT the gears. Money says all that CRAP you just posted is nothing butt CRAP, and you'll most likely find you have 3.42s right now. Or rather, the 9-bolt equivalent; 3.45.

More CRAP. There IS NO SUCH THING. Ratios are exactly that: a RATIO between tooth counts. For that reason they're ALWAYS the ... the ... the ... wait for it ... RATIO ... between 2 integers. So for example, 3.73 has 11 teeth on the pinion and 41 on the ring; 41 ÷ 11 = 3.73737373737373... as far as you care to divide it out. Likewise, 3.45 has 11 and 38: 38 ÷ 11 = 3.454545454545... again to as many decimal places as you care to keep scribbling. 3.23 is 13 & 42 (3.230769230769230769230769230769 etc.), 3.08 is either 13 & 40 or 12 & 37, and so on. There ARE NO two whole numbers in the range that physical gear teeth of the size that car differentials need, that divide into each other and produce that other BOGUS number you posted.

Time to turn off your transmitter (mouth/keyboard) and engage your receiver (ears/reading/LOOKING AT YOUR PARTS). You've clearly got ALOT to learn yet about this sort of thing.

Of course, we all know that ever since Algore invented the Interwebz, you can't post anything that's not true. Right???

Jeez you guys are ornery.

Take a look at this post, which is corroborated by all of the posts he references.

How do I find out my rear end gear ratio? - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

"M6 GU6 3.42 Standard
A4 GU2 2.73 Standard
A4 GU5 3.23 Optional (standard gear set with an SS/WS6/Firehawk)"

Not that this really matters but I have swapped my diff fluid more than once. Had this 04 GTO since new. I don't even have to remove the cover to do it. There's a drain and a fill hole.

What crawled up your asses? NVM I dont want to know lol

Don't print in white. It is illegible.

funny you should say that. I use a dark theme to view this forum. I pasted that text in and it was invisible. Changed it to black and it looked pretty bad with a dark background. Changed it to white and it was better. But if you use a white theme, I see how it wouldn't display. I am partially colorblind, but I guess the standard text with my dark theme looks like a light gray or an off white.

Just made it the automatic text color, which to me looks mostly white, but since it's automatic, it probably adjusts based off theme.

I think I saw in previous threads someone criticize you for making recommendations when you personally don't have a cammed car. That was you right? Now I am getting that criticism, so we have that in common lol

I mostly got slammed for not having built any engines, when the convo centered around facts that had been thrown around here repeatedly, and which didn't need an engine builder to know anything about. Usually from someone needing to have an engine-smarts edge to prove themselves.
Just be able to back up anything you state with hard facts and reliable sources.

It's funny because we all want to learn something but we all think we know something as well.

An over-cammed car isn't necessarily a drivability issue. Ppl don't understand that part of a good tune is increasing and scaling the cold idle speeds usually along with reduced ignition timing in the idle area. It's a really simple and even big cams will start and drive just fine daily driver style if done properly.

The issue with an overcammed car is the felt loss of engine output in the engine speeds that you use all the time. 0-3000rpm it's always softer there so if we help the mechanical advantage with the gearing we don't notice that and it's better

The gears by themselves will do more seat of the pants than the cam will. You'll appreciate that stock LS1 a lot more if you change the gearing first anyways and the cam only compliments the gears not the other way around. You're going to learn something either way but in this order you won't have to be disappointed, You can just order whatever big ass cam you want.

I got a chip on my shoulder sure but I do genuinely want to see people succeed. Just don't be afraid to come back and tell us we're right. That's all. I'm not going to touch the gearing with the 10-ft pole. I know what I know LOL