WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

ok first of all, im 20, go to college and i dont have 10k to dump into the motor so just be realistic haha

so far i am going to do heads and cam, the cam i want to go with is too big without having to fly cut the pistons. so i fiugred instead of flycutting the old ones i should take a look into building up the bottom end.

my dad told me, "if you gonna do it do it right and get a new block and start from there". well thats looking to be rather expensive. i dont know whether to go with a stock ls1 or ls6 block or get one balanced and blueprinted thats bored some. what are the prices and options when it comes to the block? and any advantage of a larger bore?

now to the crank and stuff. i dont really know what to do for that. what parts do i need besides bearings, crank, pistions, rods? and where should i look for for a good set up for it and what am i looking at for a price? also, what size motor would be good to go for. i kinda want a 400 like the old pontiacs that would be cool, but its just that i dont have any other reason i want to do it besides its cool. i read so much about 402,408,414,422....so what are the advantages of the different strokes?

please answer all the questions you can and let me know some names of things to look at. what other components do i need to look at? ive got LT's on the car now with good flowing exhaust. going to do a fuel pump, got 28.8lb injectors now. i know i could go for a bigger intake but i got the ls6 before i decided to go bigger cubes lol. so what else is needed to do this stuff? if i go with a bigger bore do the heads need to be worked? how about tuning? im going to post up in the tuning section, im about to get my own stuff to tune my car. now i like to tune iwth the predator and tell them what i need to change. i know what to look for in the numbers but how hard is it to tune. im not going to do any of this until i have a grasp of what needs to be done to tune right. and one more question, cars in my garage, how hard is it to yank the motor?

please answer all you can, i dont know much about this seeing i havent been researching for long and anything i have done in the last few days hasnt helped lol i just wanna spend more money but after college i wanna get a house so i cant go too extreme, but i wanna have fun while i can. thanks in advance guys!

CamTom12

iTrader: (1)

I'd like to see a discussion along this route as well..

SAM98WS6

Having just gone through this...and reading what you know..
Buy a 408 iron long block from one of the sponsors here such as APE (my personal choice), Lingenfelter or even More Performance right there in NC. Dont waste your time trying to build one. A little more expensive is a 383/396 aluminum assy. Cam selection will be your big choice and they can help you.

LS6 intake/ported TB, LTs, 36lb injectors/pump, tuning clutch and you are set with the basics...and will have spent close to $10k.

PREDATOR-Z

There is no build up from the botom up that will not require a least $6000.
IMO just do a leak down test on your engine to determine if your actual block is still in good shape. If so, choose a cam package (1000>1500 installed and tuned), and enjoy that for awhile). By then College should be over, you get a nice job and start saving your pennies for a build up.
PS: Do not knock up you GF in between or your dreams will sink as will your WS6.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

haha thanks. see the thing is the cam that i want to go with is gonna requires flycutting of the pistions. that is why i figured just go with new pistons. or should i just spend about a grand or so redoing the bottom end? motor i would THINK is ok. 50k miles and oil changed every 2000-2500 and i dont really run the motor up past 5000. i try to take it easy but not too easy. so the reason for the bottom end build is for the fly cutting reason. i want to do all the work myself so i dont know about flycutting. yeah it would be a good idea to wait, i dont want to sink a lot of money. ideally i would like to get a 70-73 trans am to restore when i get out of college. but i want to have fun with the WS6 now haha.

so what options do i have for doing the flycutting. should i make the bottom end stronger since im going to be in there anyway? or what? like i said after heads and cam i dont know too much info since i never thought i would go that far haha

crainholio

iTrader: (2)

You might want to do some reading...steep learning curve ahead if you're thinking about balancing a block.

PREDATOR-Z

What is "THE CAM" you are thinking off??

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

FMS cam, Allan told me 234/236 112 at about .600 lift or so but i was kinda wanting to lean more towards a 238/240 or something. i wanna make big power

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

balanced assembly

antz01ta

iTrader: (3)

it takes alot more than a big cam to do what you are lookin for, if you wanna end up with a fast car start with the basics and then look into the motor work, it took me a year and a half to get to the insides of the motor. clutch, tranny, driveshaft, rear, headers, suspension parts, ls6 intake or fast intake, throttle body, tuning, and probably about $1000 - $2000 more in small pieces i forgot to mention, if not your gonna break the thing every time you get on it. i have seen a couple of guys go big time on the motor without the other parts to support it and the car ends up sitting because they cant afford the broken parts.
my advice to you is do lots of research before you spend a penny and you will get to keep enjoying the car and not looking at it in pieces in your garage with an empty pocket.

jyeager

My recommendation, from what I've read, is to change your cam selection to one that won't require changes to the bottom end. Then enjoy those heads and cam and perhaps a $700 nitrous kit.
The next step after that might be an Eagle stroker kit (for 383 cubes). You won't have to do both mods together and if you shift at 5000rpms like you say then you won't even need to change your heads/cam when you increase your cubes.

Camaroholic

iTrader: (1)

I agree, and I followed a bunch of Sam's posts while building my own 383.

I spent more on my 383 than if I'd bought it from a sponsor. I spent about $1000 on precision tools alone (Mitutoyo micrometers, bore gauge with .0001" accuracy, degree wheel, serious valvespring compressor, piston ring tools, etc). But I'm ready to build more engines now (for me and my cars). It will cost more to do it yourself... Not just the 'hard parts' (you look at catalogs and see that a rotating assembly costs around $2000), but then add in 2 sets of rod and main bearings (to get the clearances dead nuts on), machine work on the block / cam bearings installed, studs, gaskets, this-n-that, it adds up quick. But I do like the fact that I did put it together, and it actually survived its first trip to the track.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

guys come on im not stupid read my sig. i have all the bolt ons, i have an ls6 intake, lt's, no cats, gmmg cat back, ported tb, injectors, tuning, and all the other little bolt ons. the ENTIRE suspension has been replaced. i will be getting a 12 bolt with 4.11 gears and a locker. when i do the cam im going to go with dual springs, hardened pushrods, TSP ls6 oil pump, i will be getting a bigger fuel pump here soon from Nate. i just put in a spec stage 3 in may and installed the new slave and a new flywheel and all the other pieces with it. i did the drill mod also. already tryin to think about which HD chain i want to go with. Allan at Futral told me to go with the AFR 225 heads for the power range im looking at 475-480 at the wheels. you dont have to preach to me about tuning, i have prob about 25 different tunes saved and thats just from adjusting things from every bolt on thing i have done. im real picky when it comes down to the tune numbers.

i have done a lot of research already so dont think i havent. i just havent thought about the bottom end until Allan told me i would need to fly cut the pistons. and i figured since i was down there anyway maybe i could get something nice, maybe buy a complete bottom end or buy a stroker kit to get some more power out of it. and i might be getting an ls2 intake soon. next semester is my design lab for engineering and im going to work on making a 90mm TB as my project for the machine shop.

all i was asking was about the bottom end. i have all the others for my combination, except for maybe a bigger cam if i go bigger cubes. this is months, if not a year away from me doing i just want to get all the information i can now. im not going to waste my money now and get a tiny cam and then redo it all later. if its gonna cost more to do it right, then i will just wait a year or so until i can save up some more money from work i do on the side.

with that being said, back to my original question. since i have to fly cut the pistons what options should i look at doing since i will be in the bottom of the motor anyway? do i just get new pistions? get my old ones fly cut? or do a stroker while im at it? there are so many different options, just trying to figure out which one will suit me the best. with the cam im looking at Allan told me to turn the motor 6800-7000 rpm which is another reason i would want to build it stronger. 6800 with 4.11 and i would need to turn 7000 if i went with 4.33 gears, at least thats what he told me.

CamTom12

iTrader: (1)

This was the part I was talking about when I said I'd like to see a discussion about. I didn't really read the rest of the post...

I'll start a new thread so I don't hijack this one

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

haha hijack it i dont care, this is what i want to know too...this was the reason on my post not for everyone to tell me what has to be done to make big power, i know this already lol

Lafngas98Z

iTrader: (1)

We can help you with your build up, from a forged 346 to an all out 427. Heads, cam, etc we do it all. Give me a call (940)692-1911. or email me

Rob@Autoshopmotorsports.com

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

If budget is of serious priority, why not get a Thunder Racing T-rex cam. It's a bit bigger, like you want, (242/248 .6xx/.6xx) and has the valve events moved to clear stock heads. Thunder also uses the same cam manufacturer to grind there cams as Alan. If your going to build a bottom end anyway, why not have Futral build it? They have just as many budget builds as anyone on here. If you want to keep the aluminum block, you don't have alot of choices. They can only be bored .010". You can keep the stock crank for stock CI, or you can have the stock crank off set ground to give you 366 ci. After that, you have to buy an aftermarket crank. You can get a eagle 4.00" for less than $1k and that will make a 383. You could also get a 4.125 stroke, but you will spend $1500+ on the crank for 396 ci's. 396's also tend to burn alot of oil due to the long stroke/small bore. Next step is a iron block, which cost close to the same as an aluminum block. and you can bore it .030. A 4" crank will give you a 408 and a 4.125 will give you a 423. Either way, you'll need heads and I would look at Futral or TEA for that, and TEA will be down for a while while they move shops. As you can see, this can get very expensive very quick. It would be alot easier if you knew pretty much what you wanted. Then it would be alot easier to give a guesstamite of how much you are going to spend.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

so what kinda power can the trex put down with a set of aftermarket heads? something like a stage 2 or 2.5 or the afr's?

antz01ta

iTrader: (3)

the trex is designed for use with stock cylinder heads.
smokin01ta made 442hp/389tq with this cam on stock heads.

WS6FirebirdTA00

iTrader: (33)

could i get a cam made for aftermarket heads where i dont need to fly cut but still can make some good numbers at about 470-480ish? im not too worried about hp numbers but these are the numbers i see for the cars going as fast as i would like haha