AFR small bore 225s vs AFR 205s on a 346.
02-05-2006, 07:00 PM
#22
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Nice comparison Patrick! I'm anxious to see how this thread ends up. I'm quite sure that you will get the power you are hunting for out of the 225's.. Its hard to beat the AFR heads and/or Tony M's service.
02-05-2006, 09:04 PM
#24
Originally Posted by Mr 35th
Hey Patrick. I am sure you will get those numbers your looking far. It was nice talking with you again at Thunder the other day. Good luck on the new setup.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
02-05-2006, 10:17 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
Hey Patrick, Congrats on getting the swap done. Are you tuning right now in race trim or street trim?
02-06-2006, 10:32 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
I'm running stock lifters and rockers. The springs are AFR 8019s. These springs are a little bit beefier than the awesome Comp 918s. AFR had these springs made for them exclusively and they rock. My valvetrain is actually quieter now. There is absolutely no valve float. I did not revise the FAST intake runners since the entry to the 205s vs the 225s are very close.
When you refer to 918 in the above post, did you mean to say 921’s?
How did the AFR 225's HP and TQ curves look compared to the 205 between 5,000 and your max RPM?
Good luck with the fine tuning
Bob
02-06-2006, 10:48 AM
#28
Originally Posted by SlickVert
Yea the AFR 8019 look to be a great spring upgrade, great spring pressure.
When you refer to 918 in the above post, did you mean to say 921’s?
How did the AFR 225's HP and TQ curves look compared to the 205 between 5,000 and your max RPM?
Good luck with the fine tuning
Bob
When you refer to 918 in the above post, did you mean to say 921’s?
How did the AFR 225's HP and TQ curves look compared to the 205 between 5,000 and your max RPM?
Good luck with the fine tuning
Bob
The HP and Tq curves between the 205s and the 225s are overlays of each other up to about 4000 rpm. After that, the 225s gain both power and torque and by 4800, there is a 5rwhp/5rwtq advantage that stayed for the rest of the dyno. After doing more SD tuning over the weekend, I've discovered more areas to improve fuel delivery. Basically, the VE tables are a reflection of the power potential of the motor. Since the VE tables for the 225s are raised quite a bit over the 205s, it looks like there's around a 15-18 rwhp gain in there. I hope to re-dyno very soon.
02-06-2006, 01:26 PM
#30
Patrick,
Here is a quote from EngineMasters magazine. "You've discovered an inordinate amount of fuel is required to optimize power. The possibility exists that excessive mechanical seperation of air and fuel is the cause, requiring additional fuel to compensate for unburned and seperated fuel passing directly out of the exhaust ports. Such cases often require additional spark timing too, both conditions are undesirable".
Maybe your new 225's have a lower level of mixing the air/fuel mixture properly in the standerd small bore 347 engine compaired to the better matched 205's.
Here is a quote from EngineMasters magazine. "You've discovered an inordinate amount of fuel is required to optimize power. The possibility exists that excessive mechanical seperation of air and fuel is the cause, requiring additional fuel to compensate for unburned and seperated fuel passing directly out of the exhaust ports. Such cases often require additional spark timing too, both conditions are undesirable".
Maybe your new 225's have a lower level of mixing the air/fuel mixture properly in the standerd small bore 347 engine compaired to the better matched 205's.
Last edited by gollum; 02-06-2006 at 01:35 PM.
02-06-2006, 02:35 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by gollum
Patrick,
Here is a quote from EngineMasters magazine. "You've discovered an inordinate amount of fuel is required to optimize power. The possibility exists that excessive mechanical seperation of air and fuel is the cause, requiring additional fuel to compensate for unburned and seperated fuel passing directly out of the exhaust ports. Such cases often require additional spark timing too, both conditions are undesirable".
Maybe your new 225's have a lower level of mixing the air/fuel mixture properly in the standerd small bore 347 engine compaired to the better matched 205's.
Here is a quote from EngineMasters magazine. "You've discovered an inordinate amount of fuel is required to optimize power. The possibility exists that excessive mechanical seperation of air and fuel is the cause, requiring additional fuel to compensate for unburned and seperated fuel passing directly out of the exhaust ports. Such cases often require additional spark timing too, both conditions are undesirable".
Maybe your new 225's have a lower level of mixing the air/fuel mixture properly in the standerd small bore 347 engine compaired to the better matched 205's.
02-06-2006, 02:37 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Louie83
Interesting experiment, I'll keep an eye on this one.
The only problem I see is that your cam is matched to the 205's and I don't think that cam is capable of showing the full potential of 225's. I would think something in the mid 240's matched to the 225 would be more ideal, especially in the upper RPM's.
The only problem I see is that your cam is matched to the 205's and I don't think that cam is capable of showing the full potential of 225's. I would think something in the mid 240's matched to the 225 would be more ideal, especially in the upper RPM's.
02-06-2006, 02:46 PM
#34
On a race engine, signs of SHINEY clean washed areas on piston tops and combustion chambers is a dead giveaway of severe air/fuel seperation.
If air/fuel mixture is correct you should have an even coat of carbon build up with some variations in color in the combustion area (very very small area of washed shiney area is acceptable).
If air/fuel mixture is correct you should have an even coat of carbon build up with some variations in color in the combustion area (very very small area of washed shiney area is acceptable).
Last edited by gollum; 02-06-2006 at 03:05 PM.
02-06-2006, 02:56 PM
#35
Originally Posted by STRIPSTAR
Hmm, interesting quote but why the less fuel down low?
Last edited by gollum; 02-07-2006 at 04:24 AM.
02-06-2006, 05:32 PM
#39
Originally Posted by 98Aggie
Hey Patrick, I will she if John will give us a good deal to use his mustang dyno here in Victoria.
