00transamnh

iTrader: (1)

well... hopefully futral takes care of whatever the problem is... id still really like to get the f13

PREDATOR-Z

I think Cam Motion should be made aware as well.
I usually use Comp grinds and their quality is great.
With the durations and lifts we use for large cams, any roughness in the lobes will result premature lifter wear, because instead of rolling on the lobe, the lifter will start just tapping off of it.

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

RMbuilder, performance marine guy specializing in cam/lifter/ and head packages, runs Cam Motions cams in his applications. The LS1 and BBC share almost same core size. They both use 1.7 rockers. The BBC has a much heavier valvetrain but do run the same lifter as the LS1.

I spoke with him yesterday. . . NO ISSUES with lifters or cams. He averages around 12 packages a month. Some of these engines have 150 to 200 hours on them with no issues. 1 hour in Marine equals a 100 miles. These engines also turn a minimum of 3000 rpm all day with a max of 55 to 5800 rpm. Some do see 6200 or so. He also stated that some guys have up graded to blowers or new heads and the stuff coming out looks great; some run Morel, Comp, OEM, and Crane lifters.

The only difference we have here is engine family. You are blaming the messenger (the cams and lifters) when you need to figure out the source....

sho-me speed

iTrader: (55)

My new custom grind cam just came in and it was smooth as glass. I checked after reading this thread. I would be worried if there are grooves you can feel with your finger. they will eventually cut grooves in the lifters.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

I wouldnt coung the f-13 out at all because of this. Dont let one bad apple spoil the bunch. The f13 is still a great cam, and like allan said in the other thread, if youre not happy about any ridges or tooling marks visable on the cam lobe, return it and theyll resurface or replace it. If youve had your heart set on this cam, no reason not go go with it.

MadBill

There is absolutely no good reason or excuse to ship a cam with the 'tooling marks' shown in the referenced post. aux has it right: For a roller, mirror finish or return it. (unless you also prefer your roller lifter wheels knurled "for better oil retention")

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

Question. Are all the engines that are having these problems aluminum block?

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

You guys ever see a tunnel boring machine on discover channel? It's cutters work like so:

The bits look like wheels that are knife edged, like a pizza cutter. They roll with the direction the drill is turning. The immense pressure applied to the 50 or so cutters is enough to fracture the rock as it rolls over it.

Now if youve got a cam with ridges in it, youre really only hitting teh very top point of the ridges. The load that is usually spread out over a larger area now has a much higher load localized to the tops of the ridges which make up a small percent of the area. Perhaps this could effectively create the same scenario as the tunnel boring machines?

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

I have aske Harold Brookshire to log on the forum and comment about the lobes, the tooling marks, and the damage.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Here's a quick illustration on how I think ridges could create stress fractures in the lifter rollers.



You can easily see how the ridges put the same pressure on a small percentage of the original area.

Again, this is only a theory attempting to explain what happened. Im not trying to pass this off as fact. Just submitting it for your consideration.

MadBill

Makes sense to me...

redtail2426

iTrader: (10)

do you guys think i could take some 2000 grit sand paper and then some metal polish to my f-10...just a thought to get it a little smoother,if not im going to put it in anyway,it will probably only be in for 3k miles anyway.

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

Okay and we have oil in the valleys. The oil is trapped by the peaks. Can we compress fluid? Now the question is if we didn't have oil in valleys what would happen?

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

It's not going to keep the lifters and cam from doing what has been photographed. If the enviroment of the engine is just so, then the result of the lifter and cam damage is going to happen.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

The oil in the valleys will not matter. Its not a sealed system. Pressure if relieved as soon as the curvature of the roller and cam diverge. For instance, you cant compress water, so why wont an all season tread tire hydroplane as easily as a slick. In this example, the oil would move out of the way of the peaks just like water is channeled away by treads in a tire.

gr8one99SS

iTrader: (4)

hey guys just to let eveyone know i am in no way putting the blame on Futural or Allen the cam was not machined by him so i dont want to say it his fault. I am still gonna use an f13 . I have already sent it back to Allen and he is going to send me a new cam. I would like to add that as busy of a business as he has, im sure they dont have the time to open and inspect every cam before they ship it and secondly he shouldnt have to, Cam motion should have noticed the tool marks before it was shipped to Futural. I am glad to say they are taking good care of the situation for me and i am. confident that he will do whaterver it takes to fully resovle the issue. I never meant to come off as bad mouthing futural in any way and would gladly do buisness with them again. He and his team have done great things for many people and a few badly ground cams will not change the fact that Allen is a master of his art

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Well said. I share youre feelings on the matter, as Im sure most do.

SideStep

Chris,

Then why do not all Futral/CamMotion cams have the ridges??? I have seen many (F13 cams) from Futral that have slick smooth lobe surfaces (new) and then there are these few that have shown up lately with these ridges. If these ridges are not defects why would CamMotion grind some with and some without???

Cstraub

iTrader: (1)

New machine, new rocks, new method of cutting. . .could be a lot of variables. You know what I told you when you were here about "2 guys" and that's how it is done.

MadBill

Visible peaks will penetrate the oil film, so the result will be very high unit loading and damage at the contact points.