Looking for a cam - possibly Patrick G's torque cam?
 

The car is a street driven car that I only drive once or twice a week, and I am interested more in torque under the curve than up top, all out horsepower. (I damn sure don't want it to die up top, though.) Right now I am only looking at doing the cam, springs, oil pump, pulley and other associated misc. items. Eventually I will be adding heads to the mix.

I was interested in Patrick G's torque cam, but realized that he had 3.42's. I have 3.73's and will likely move up to 4.10's when this rear goes. I am concerned that with this cam and gearing I will not be able to get traction (street tires) and take advantage of all the benefits of the cam down low. I have read all the posts regarding this cam, but still had a couple of questions about whether it was right for me or not.

What other cams would give me similar results as this, but workable with at least 3.73's and bolt ons? I would also prefer a choppy idle. I've also seen him talk about a 228/232 110LSA +2 cam or a 235/242 .646/.610 110LSA +2 I have no idea about all the different combos and need a little guidance.

I've searched and searched and talked to people who say "talk to people". I don't really understand all the calculations and what to look for and all that crap, so now I'm asking any of you for some opinions. I would've sent Patrick a PM but I figured others might also be interested in this and could help out (Predator, I think possibly?). Thanks for the advice.

-Marc

The beauty of my cam is that it makes good power down low and up high. Not everyone is crazy about running LSK lobes though, so that said, an XE-R version would be something like 228/232 .588/.592 110LSA +2. If you had higher static compression, I might recommend less advance.

As long as you get springs that could handle the lobes, then what's the big deal? How would that cam differ in its power versus yours? What about the other ones I listed? You've talked so much about so many different ones that I can't remember them all. (I think those were the latest that I saw.)

His cam has quite a bit more lift which can have a negative impact on the longetivity of your springs.

Heres A virtual engine dyno program its as accurate as I can make it.

Engine : 346 Ls1 11.5:1 compression TrickFlow Ls1 Heads 2.04/1.575
1000cfm Induction Single Plane Largetube Open exhaust

Cam 1 : 224/228 @.050 .637''/.639'' 110+0 LSA 110 ICL
valve overlap 6.0 [will not let me enter .200 take advantage of lsk]

IVO 4.0 {BTDC} EVC 40.0 {ABDC}

EVO 46.0 {BBDC} EVC 2.0 {BTDC}

ICA 108.0 {ATDC} ECA 112.0 {BTDC}

Cam 2 : 233/240 @.050 .646''/.609'' 110+2 LSA 108 ICL
valve overlap 16.5 [this one will have a more rowdy idle ]

IVO 10.5 {BTDC} EVC 42.5 {ABDC}

EVO 54.0 {BBDC} EVC 6.0 {BTDC}

ICA 106.0 {ATDC} ECA 114.0 {BTDC}

CAM 1 CAM 2
RPM HP TQ HP TQ
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
2000 163 429 156 409
2500 214 450 207 436
3000 268 469 261 456
3500 323 485 318 477
4000 380 499 378 497
4500 437 510 440 514
5000 485 509 497 522
5500 527 503 542 518
6000 545 477 572 501
6500 557 450 588 475
7000 544 408 587 441
7500 534 374 578 404

Cam 1 Avg HP 414.75 / Avg TQ 463.58

Cam 2 Avg HP 427.00 / Avg TQ 470.83

Cam 1 -15% 473.45 RwHp / 433.50 RwTq

Cam 2 -15% 499.80 RwHp / 443.70 RwTq

hey partrick how whould the 228/232 .588/.592 110LSA +2 do compared ot my 231/237 cam i got now? gotta pull ehads and thinking of a new cam too.

Hi cws T/A

Are you using a software simulation to run your "virtual engine dyno program" or is it a calculation under Excel, I am interested to run my future set up with your program.

Christian

marc,
I was in the same shoes as you last week. i just called the guys at Thunder Racing and told them what i wanted my car to do and they hooked me right up with my cam Thunder Racing 230/236 .592/.602 112lsa, havent put it in yet waiting for my stage 2 ls6 heads from Patriot Performance

Yeah, I tried those engine software simulators. They were wrong when choosing cams for the LS1. Most don't take into account the tuned runner length of the intake manifold and head. The program said a 234/238 .598/.605 114LSA +2 cam would be 15 hp and 10 torque better than my current cam. Funny thing is, my current cam murdered that much larger cam in average power and torque and even made slightly more peak hp. The bottom line, experience and results trump software programs nearly every time.

I've already spoken to two people over there who told me two different things; one of the guys recommended the 230/236 cam.

This is ''desktop dyno 2000'' its an old program, doesnt have ls1's in it but I type in the flow numbers from the heads and pick the most realitic intake a single plane Victor. I know its off but I just figured it would show an example in a smaller cam vs a bigger cams power curve . Don't take this to heart and go buy just from what you saw me post.
If I had access to a real engine dyno and 20 cams to test this website would be filled with real data . I think the 224/228 cam held its own though . It does exactly as Patrick states ,has power down low and still pulls to the lsx factory choke point.

Marc -

If you look at Patrick's dyno, the HP curve peaks at 6300 (like most any would with an LS6 or FAST intake manifold. His cam still pulls cleanly to 7000 rpm though. While you may not need to run 3.73 or 4.10 gears to run that cam, it ceratainly wouldn't hurt either. As far as traction goes, that's a matter of either running a drag radial type tire on the street, or refraining from WOT in lower gears. Experience will eventually get you out of the hole well, even on 4.10's. :drive:

I had looked extensively into a little bit larger cam than what Patrick has come up with, but reality set in. I'm 99% street, but not daily driven. I have no intention of getting a sheet metal intake, so camming to make incremental gains above 6300 rpm's would only give marginally better results than what he has attained with a trade-off on the low end.

Patrick - do you have any video of your car at idle? I've been curious how that cam sounds on the 110, but I've not been able to find any video/audio.

Makes sense, hammer. I've done more reading on the LSK lobes; would there be a problem with valve float with stock heads & valves with this cam if I went with a set of Comp 921's?

:werd:

I'd skip the Comp 921's and go with PRC duals or Patriot golds. 921's are just too damned expensive.

Nate

Ahh they are expensive, but I would think for a reason. That's another topic, really though. Patrick told me that the PRC duals should be fine as long as they were shimmed to within .050" of coil bind.

Marc,

In my PM to you I told you that Patrick's cam would be just about perfect for your goals. Honestly if you are worried about hooking the car, buy some better tires. I'm not sure who else you talked to here, but opinions are like...everyone has one that is slightly different. Not sure what else to tell you.

BTW, the people saying the LSK lobes won't last for street use...they will. I have a lot of customers using them now with no issues. Hell a year ago everyone was saying the cam in my truck would be a spring breaker. I now have over 40,000 miles on the same set of springs. So much for that myth.

Is there a cam design with the newer lobes which maximizes the flow of a stock 241 or 243 head? I mean a Hi-Torque equivalent but not for aftermarket or ported GM heads, rather stock heads. Peak hp at 6300rpm + ability to generate power beyond peak.

I agree with Geoff, just would like to add that it is imperative that the valvetrain be setup properly. Just dropping parts in and calling it a day is not the way to do it with those lifts. If done properly, there is no difference between them or an XE-R (as far as reliability).
Basically (gotta match the parts used carefully and put it all together according to specs)

Would the 921's be adequate? I know that they are rated to .650 lift, but are they what you would recommend?



I understand what you're saying, but I trust that Geoff and Thunder won't steer me wrong. Other than that, do you have any opinions on the subject?

I have the 228/232 588/595 on a 110+1 that was recommended to me by Patrick G. I have it on an 01 C5 6 spd with exhaust, air intake, longtubes and ported tb with 4:10's. I running Goodyear GS D3's and I have to use control with the throttle in 1st and 2nd gear to keep traction. When I'm really getting on it. I have to admit I'm very happy with this cam. The graph shows the cam after it was tuned before and after degreeing the cam. It was installed dot to dot, but then I had to buy an adjustable timing chain and get it degreed as my torque and hp weren't were they should be. Degreeing got things right. Also here is a soundclip of the cam. This is thru highflow cats. http://media.putfile.com/228232-110LSA-on-Startup

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/..._1202Small.jpg