thefritz1

Hey all curious if we've decided any negative side effects from running the revised PCV valve from GM. I was running Steve's inline filter mod but I don't want the hastle of changing the filters and I was getting no suction from the fresh air hose. Does anyone "KNOW" if using the new valve will cause any damage? I'm about to switch over to RP oil so I think i'll try the stock PCV valve for 3K and then the pin holed revised one for 3K and see if it makes a difference.

TIA for the input

thefritz1

TTT on this one

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by thefritz1:
<strong>Hey all curious if we've decided any negative side effects from running the revised PCV valve from GM. I was running Steve's inline filter mod but I don't want the hastle of changing the filters and I was getting no suction from the fresh air hose. Does anyone "KNOW" if using the new valve will cause any damage? I'm about to switch over to RP oil so I think i'll try the stock PCV valve for 3K and then the pin holed revised one for 3K and see if it makes a difference.

TIA for the input</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

TomBusby

Here is a variation on Steve's concept. Also, if the filter is not passing enough vacuum you can tell from a slight dip in oil pressure.

Pep Boys has an air filter for filtering the PCV line. The filter is a small acrylic bottle, filter and separator used in an air compressor-line for spray painting. It cost $19.95 and is a Camel 56-100 (a/k/a AMFLO 3000 RET) without the automatic drain, so it has a small manual drain at the bottom of the clear polycarbonate bottle. It is designed to filter solids AND liquids from air, so it should work better than fuel filters designed to separate solids from fuel.
The actual filtration is through a tiny 3/4" tall replaceable poly-spun filter and the polycarbonate container is about 3" tall and 1 and 1/2" in diameter. The oil and aerosols separate into the bottom.
I also bought 2 brass 1/4" fittings that are made by Camel and sold alongside the filter, and a brass 1/4" splicing fitting, and some screw clamps. The Camel filter with auto drain has the same part # (?!?) and I doubt if this would work in the PCV system, (which is a vacuum system and not pressurized like an air compressor) so be sure you buy one with the black plastic screw and thread lines that show through at the bottom.
When full, the polycarbonate container will hold maybe 2-3 ounces of oil. I temporarily mounted it with cable ties to the A/C condenser so I could see it and drain it. I used an extra 30" of 3/8" gas line tubing, spliced into the existing line, which I twisted 180 degrees over to reach toward the new filter.
I was interested in the filtering the PCV line after reading Steve Hovis’ well-illustrated website about PCV filters. Oil has no octane rating and collects in the throttle bore. Steve, thanks very much for the concept. It should result in a slight increase in octane for anyone though, and it is super-easy to do, in about 1/2 hour, for about $30.00 total.
This mod accomplishes more than a new PCV valve because it is an actual filter, and does not cause a reduction in air flow, which I suspect is all that the new GM PCV valve does.
I thought others would like to try it out.
A month ago I found the better-quality metal-bowl filter, and I haven't bought it yet. The Camel polycarbonate bowl is rated only to 120 degrees so I am going to buy the more expensive metal bowl aerosol-separator soon from this link: http://www.airhosereels.com/1136-8.html

NastySSoo

Hey Tom, I tried the new PCV and a small piece of filter element in line before the PCV and it didnt slow my consumption at all. I am at the track weekly so obviously Im at high RPMs a lot. I get no smoke at start-up, or during acceleration, only on decel after high RPMs. Im getting desperate because Im putting on stage II heads with cam (If they ever get here) and if I need to get into the engine I would like to do it before the H/C install. Im going thru 1 Qt per 1200 miles Mobil 5W30. I think I will try your method . I couldnt get that link for the metal filter. When I tried a fuel filter, I lost 5PSI so I took it right off. Sorry this is so long, Im just frustrated!!

Paul

thefritz1

Hmm...I think I'm going to need to read your post 100 times to figure it outs since I'm a relative newbie. I guess my first question would be approximately where should my oil pressure be on idle/accelaration. Then I'll be able to tell if thereis too much of a drop in oil pressure. My 2nd question would be where can I get the new filter you speak of as the link no workie. And my last question do you have any pictures of your completed setup?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by TomBusby:
<strong>Here is a variation on Steve's concept. Also, if the filter is not passing enough vacuum you can tell from a slight dip in oil pressure.

Pep Boys has an air filter for filtering the PCV line. The filter is a small acrylic bottle, filter and separator used in an air compressor-line for spray painting. It cost $19.95 and is a Camel 56-100 (a/k/a AMFLO 3000 RET) without the automatic drain, so it has a small manual drain at the bottom of the clear polycarbonate bottle. It is designed to filter solids AND liquids from air, so it should work better than fuel filters designed to separate solids from fuel.
The actual filtration is through a tiny 3/4" tall replaceable poly-spun filter and the polycarbonate container is about 3" tall and 1 and 1/2" in diameter. The oil and aerosols separate into the bottom.
I also bought 2 brass 1/4" fittings that are made by Camel and sold alongside the filter, and a brass 1/4" splicing fitting, and some screw clamps. The Camel filter with auto drain has the same part # (?!?) and I doubt if this would work in the PCV system, (which is a vacuum system and not pressurized like an air compressor) so be sure you buy one with the black plastic screw and thread lines that show through at the bottom.
When full, the polycarbonate container will hold maybe 2-3 ounces of oil. I temporarily mounted it with cable ties to the A/C condenser so I could see it and drain it. I used an extra 30" of 3/8" gas line tubing, spliced into the existing line, which I twisted 180 degrees over to reach toward the new filter.
I was interested in the filtering the PCV line after reading Steve Hovis’ well-illustrated website about PCV filters. Oil has no octane rating and collects in the throttle bore. Steve, thanks very much for the concept. It should result in a slight increase in octane for anyone though, and it is super-easy to do, in about 1/2 hour, for about $30.00 total.
This mod accomplishes more than a new PCV valve because it is an actual filter, and does not cause a reduction in air flow, which I suspect is all that the new GM PCV valve does.
I thought others would like to try it out.
A month ago I found the better-quality metal-bowl filter, and I haven't bought it yet. The Camel polycarbonate bowl is rated only to 120 degrees so I am going to buy the more expensive metal bowl aerosol-separator soon from this link: http://www.airhosereels.com/1136-8.html</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

TomBusby

The link moved to this
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/alamohose/1136-8.html
I think they are in San Antonio Texas as many "Alamo" stores are there.
However, I am not sure if the metal bowl kind will work right because the website data from this link says that it (the $60 filter) has a .9 micron filter, which is too restrictive. The $20 filter, which is the kind I am using, from Pep Boys says it has a 50 micron filter. The Pep Boys filter seems to work fine so I have not bought the other filter because I am not sure if it correct for our application, as explained in the following paragraph.

The "trick" in filter-rating terminology is that a "nominal" rating means the size in microns of the average particle that will be trapped, but the "absolute" rating means the size in microns of the largest particle that will absolutely (always) be trapped. The filters at issue are like mazes with a dead-zone of air swirl to collect drops of liquid, rather than being like a paper screen as the fuel filters are, so it is perhaps possible that the same oil-from-air filter could have an absolute rating of .9 microns AND a nominal rating of 50 microns. I suspect that .9 is an absolute rating because that is a very very tiny particle for it to be a nominal rating.

So, if someone finds out about the nominal rating of the $60 filter please post it here.

The oil on de-accel could indicate valve guide problems but it is probably the pcv, because there are so many complaints about the pcv and becasue the vacuum in the intake manifold (but also during de-accel at the intake cycle in the cylinders) is much much higher on de-accel than at other time.

For $30 total and about an hour of your time you could try the mod I suggested. I spent more time wandering around Pep Boys reading labels on all the different kinds of filters than installing the filter in my car. Look in the "painting" section of your auto parts store for this filter.

My posts are always long by comparison.

TomBusby

Oh fritz I didn't answer your question about pictures. I don't have an upload site but it is not hard to explain. On the driver's side of the engine, right by the throttle body (its bolted to the front of the black plastic intake manifold) you will see 2 rubber hoses. One hose is in front of the butterfly in the throttle body, so we know it is (nearly ) at atmospheric pressure. This hose is the intake side of the positive crankcase ventilation system. Clean filtered air goes through hose #1 and into the vavle cover and the crankcase because of the vacuum source created by the 2nd hose by the passenger side of the throttle body. This 2nd hose is behind the butterfly, so we know that a vacuum source is present here. The amount of vacuum will vary, and it will be highest at de-accel, when the engine is revving high, and pumpimg a lot of air but the butterfly is almost completely closed. The pcv valve is "upstream" from the throttle body vacuum source.

I disconnected the 2nd hose at the throttle body, then reached just forward of the pcv valve (the pcv valve is wrapped in rubber and sits on the passenger side of the engine in a little valley between the intake manifold and the valve cover) and I twisted the existing hose 180 degrees (just twist it with your hands). Then I added about 18" of hose (with a brass splice) installed the filter, and added about 18" of hose to reconnect at the vacuum source behind the butterfly. Is this about what you asked re pictures?

The pcv makes a vacuum inside the engine, which apparently improves the oil pressure very slightly. The amount is barely visible on our simple gauges. I let my pcv filter fill up with oil to try to see the pressure drop and I guess it is about 5 pounds different.

The pcv system was invented to keep pollution down but it had another unintended and favorable consequence, by essentially doubling engine life compared to the draft tube system you see under older engines. The draft tube sucked in a lot of road grit into the crakcase that ate up the bearings and cylinder walls. An engine used to be toast long before 100,000 miles. So the whole pcv system is very beneficial and you want it to operate essentially as intended, but make it better by filtering out most of the oil-aerosols before the vacuum pulls them into the intake manifold.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

I did the super simple vertical pcv mod..just moved it to the back in the valve cover and then ran a new hose to the front of the car and blocked off the valve cover vent on the passenger side..didn't help much..when we checked doing my recent cam install we had oil in the tb..I just put the new pcv valve in but mounted it also at the back in the drivers side valve cover grommet at the back of the valve cover.I also switched to 10/30 amsoil synthetic from the 0 /30 that I was running..I think my tick/knock noise is less or maybe even gone and have heard the oil consumption is much less with this 10/30 amsoil..you might want to try this oil..see how it works in combination with the new valve..the new valve is the current part number now..I may try some collection/filter thing if this don't work.

MelloYellow

Tom:
I like your idea. I've run the SMH PCV with good results and may move this direction.

1 Q.
Which style line/tubing are you using? Do I need something stronger than fuel line so it won't collapse? Is there a sharp bend in the line in the above example? Someone mentioned using Power Steering line. Should I use that instead?

Thx

thefritz1

Question!

Are folks saying that when you ask for a PCV valve now (even for the non-truck LS1) you are given the pinhole designed PCV valve?!? I'd like to try this before filtering everything.

Thanks!

MelloYellow

I'm going to do both.

StevieZ

iTrader: (3)

I installed the revised "pinhole" PCV at he same time that I did a top engine clean and an oilchange to RP #41. I've clocked 1200 miles since without using a drop of oil. I don't know what consumption was before I installed it as I didn' have the car long enough but I noticed that the throtlle body blade is now nice an clean. It's working for me.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

The new PCV valve is working well for me so far. It seems to have stopped my oil usage so far. I also have it mounted verticle.

I am happy with it like this. I don not plan to spend all the time setting up any of these filtration systems as long as this new valve works. I don't have a ton of time to waste on the PCV system anymore, IMO.

TomBusby

Mello, I used 3/8" gas hose (like for carburated engines) that costs about $1/foot. The vacuum is quite low so there's no need for power steering or fuel injected hose. There are no sharp bends in the line, because the filter is cabled onto the ac acumulator (the big siver can behind the battery). That's why 3' or so of extra hose is necessary. This way the filter is easy to drain into a small jar, about every 1500 miles of street driving. The plastic bowl is rated only to 120 degrees so it needs to be put off to the side of the engine.

thefritz1

Do we know if the new PCV valve design is being used by GM for the ls1 fbodys? or just trucks?

Thanks!

MelloYellow

TomBusby:
Thanks! Hard to find the manual drain version. Finally found one at AutoZone made by Campbell Hausfeld.

I grabbed a 90* fitting for the bend in case I need it. Have extra straight fittings too. Any updates? What temperatures are Fuel Filters good up to? Never had any probs with those in the past. I see this one is good to 125*. Find a source for replacement filter elements??

TomBusby

Mello, I have 6k miles on the filter and I haven't had to rplace it or clean it yet. The polycarbonate bowl isn't checked and at $20 a pop for the whole thing I haven't looked for replacement filters-alone. I bought a spare to put on my wife's car recently. Vacuum pulls through it at what feels to be the same as new. This tends to show that my guess of 50 micron nominal and .9 micron absolute is accurate and results from the "quiet zone" below the filter. A 50 micron nomimal is not likely to plug up very quickly from filtering aerosols in the pcv system. The filter is cable-tied to the front of the cold A/C condenser so it stays relatively cool, probably below 125 degrees F, and should filter the aerosols better as they should coelesce more readily at lower temps present there.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

That new valve has replaced the old pcv for our cars at the parts counter..so it can't hurt anything..I think putting it vertical might help some and like I said above in my post try running 10/30 it won't hurt anything and good synthetic will still flow fine in colder weather.If I still find real high oil consumption I would consider the inline filter and all that stuff.

MY99TAWS6

iTrader: (3)

I have that new valve as I said above mounted vertically at back of drivers valve cover.I seem to get a weird noise at idle from the new valve..sounds kind of like a screeching belt but its definitely coming from the pcv valve I think.Anyone else notice a noise with the new valve??

LS1x2

iTrader: (11)

I didn't read all the posts here. Just the title.

I installed the new pcv valve about 4k miles ago. Didn't do anything for my oil consumption problems.