HP-GURU

The guys over there are putting together combo's that put out 330-380rwhp/350-390rwtq out of purpose built 331-347 cubic inch motors.

I was wondering what the guys on this side of the universe think about this.

Do you think the ford is not capable of ls1 like numbers N/A? Or do you think these guys just don't know what they are doing.

BurnOut

iTrader: (1)

I think it can be done... hell, why not?? Having motors in the 5.4L-5.7L range in the 450+ hp range (at the flywheel) is nothing new. The thing about the LS1 is that it doesn't HAVE to be purpose-built to reach those numbers, due in part to the head design (15* valve angle vs. traditional SBC 23* valve angle). If those guys were doing that with stock-type components in the bottom end (read: no lightened cranks, no forged rods that would allow the motor to be twisted to 8k, etc...) with ported factory heads, a cam, and bolt-ons, then I'd be impressed.

TAMUz06

I think that a KC 331 R block is going into my coupe project...whenever that begins...nasty blower on top of it, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

HP-GURU

The 123-124 traps for 347's are the exception.

Most of those guys are stuck in the 330-380rwhp range.

Some of the have the heads that flow the 270-290@.500", the ported intakes that flow over 300 CFM, the large throttle bodies, long tubes, large cams.

For some reason they seem to nose over quickly after about 5800 rpm.

I personally think most of them are running away from the intake manifold that will let them make ls1 like power ( the vic 5.0 ).

Later.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

I know someone with a gutted Fox / T5 / 4.10 that runs 11.1@125mph with a carbed 331ci. Car runs some healthy compression.

I've seen a guy at GLD run 11.6@117mph with a Fox / T5 / 3.73 on pump gas.

Jake99SS

Kind of a side question: when you say 15* valve angle, 23* valve angle, what is that angle in relation to?

HP-GURU

Angle with respect to the piston.

My point is there are alot of 346's on here in the 400-440rwhp range.

I can count several dozen on this bbs and the corvette forum.

You can't count many 400+rwhp 331 to 351 setups on that side.

jmX

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by HP-GURU:
<strong>
I personally think most of them are running away from the intake manifold that will let them make ls1 like power ( the vic 5.0 ).

Later.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All the fast ones around here are using the Holly systemax intake (as am I) on their 5.0. The only N/A 5.0 based motor'd car thats ever beat my heads/cam LS1 SS (from a roll!) had that combo. There are 2 in austin with basically the same combo.

Josh@KY-Turbo

iTrader: (120)

i know of a couple of N/A 347 and 331 motors here in town that are making in the 400-460 rwhp range on pump gas 11:1 motors. i know i am gonna catch some flack about the pump gas, but we can get 110 octane leaded or not at one of the the local gas stations. <img border="0" alt="[devil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Camaro]" title="" src="graemlins/camaro.gif" />

HP-GURU

Can you get dyno's of those? Are they running carbs?

I know it can be done, just seems most of the EFI guys aren't making this type of power.

Skelton

I have quite abit of hands on with 331 and 347 stroker fords. The 331 is the best choice for high rpms and power adders. It allows a better rod ratio and is only giving up 16 cubes which is pretty moog. The 331 also allows for much better oil control and thicker ring lands. This is all based on 8.2 deck blocks. Once you go with the Ford racing blocks, you add deck height which means you can fit a long rod with a good piston in a 347-360 cube motor. Its all on what amount of $$$ you want to spend. You can easily obtain 450 hp with either streetable N/A and over 2,000 if you go pro-5.0 style. The small ford offers many, many choices. As far as the minor leagues, the ls1 is still playing A-AA ball with the small ford approaching all-star status. There are 331 cubed fords running 6.70's @205+. The ls1 will catch up fast though IMO. It will just take time

wot247

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Y2K Blackbird:
<strong> There are 331 cubed fords running 6.70's @205+. The ls1 will catch up fast though IMO. It will just take time</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I thought most of the pro 5.0 heavy hitters were 351 based , or 9.5 deck height based cars. The last article i read was on Pande and his is a 380ci as most of the others it seems........just curious if ive been the wrong stuff or what?

CinderSS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>There are N/A 347's here in Austin that are trapping 122-123 in the 1/4.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only 347s I have seen running those numbers have the weight to power ratio going for thiem. JmX, I know you know all about it. I saw the video several times and thought you did very well against tom. He tore me a new one.

<small>[ May 09, 2002, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: CinderSS ]</small>

hondakiller

iTrader: (3)

steve grebeck who was the fastest pro 5.0 guy before he died has a 375 inch turbo motor. 351 based. the 331 is definently the better of the two because of oil control but you can build nearly any c.i from the 5.0 between 302 and 357. 302 306 310 324 331 347 342 i know i forgot some too. the 5.0 from a pure performance stance isnt anything special of a motor but when you factor in how damn cheaply you can make them run quickly thats when they become interesting. hell for the price of a good set of longtubes for our motors you can get headers,x-pipe, catback and a cam for a 5.0 and probably have some change left over for CAI.

jmX

There are N/A 347's here in Austin that are trapping 122-123 in the 1/4.

turbo'd stang

About 5 years ago, I had a 347 as my daily driver. I never did have it dynoed, but it was a full weight 85GT, with PS,AC, full interior. With a 1.75 60 ft., granny shifting, the car went an 11.8@116 It had more in it. Currently, I have a 331. NA, I don't care what it makes, the motor is setup for 30+ psi from a 100mm turbo. It should make in the neighborhood of 1500+hp

Most people with Mustangs just don't care what their car makes NA. The LS1 is a more efficient design, therefore, NA it will make more power. There are Mustangs out there making that kind of power (400+rwhp) NA, but most people choose a power adder. SAM's all motor, race car runs high 9's? There are all motor Mustang race cars that run low 9's, same weight, so the old outdated motor isn't doing too badly.

Scott
99TA
85 Mustang

jmX

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CinderSS:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmX:
<strong>There are N/A 347's here in Austin that are trapping 122-123 in the 1/4.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only 347s I have seen running those numbers have the weight to power ratio going for thiem. JmX, I know you know all about it. I saw the video several times and thought you did very well against tom. He tore me a new one.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I was quoting traps not dyno numbers since I have no idea what they dyno'd. I'd guess 380'ish or so....Toms car had a fair amount of lightening done. Either way, the point was a streetable 5.0 based car beat my heads/cam LS1 all motor. It can be done (as you know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> )

Hope one day my 88GT can run a similar combo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

The Guy in MY 99TA

It is very hard to make a Ford run with a Chevy. Proven Fact( I dont have the references handy) but it is true! I don't plan on putting a Ford down by that.

We need to keep in mind that a Mustang will weigh 200-1000 lbs lighter than an F-body ( a Fox body mustang gt weighs about 3300 and a lx coupe only weighs about 3000)

It is very very hard to make a Ford a street car and be able to run 11's... LS1 cars run 11's with the A/C BLOWING!!!!!!!

My point is clear!!!!! 8======D---- on Ford!!!!!

Josh S.

SERIALPIMP

iTrader: (4)

The guys building these ford motors are making good power for what they spend, and the most important thing to keep in mind when comparing them to us is that LS1 engineering and such are more advanced and more expensive, They don't have the newer style heads, or aluminum blocks etc. etc. There engineering and parts should be compared to older GM stuff, I am pretty familiar since my old roommate had A 5.0 mustang with a build 306 that trapped 118.

VINCE

iTrader: (1)

We have some pretty stout Mustangs in my area.. This one guy had a I think 89 Mustang GT with some weight reduction, 347ci stroker, and 4.10's. On the street and on motor he had pretty much beat everyone around. The car with driver weighed 3300lbs. Now he had beat people by bus lengths.. One day I finally got the nerve to run him just to see where I stood.. He beat me only by a car and a half. I was so impressed with my setup I could not believe it. My car with me in it weighs 3750lbs. I have 3.42's and I was wearing F1's and he was in ET Streets. Granite we ran from a 15 to 20 mph roll, but I expected him to just pull away. I think if I would have had 4.10's and a little more weight reduction. He would have been beat..