VAP

With these huge o.d sleeves what kind of strength do you think there will be left in the decks for gasket seal..
It's not just a matter stuffing the sleeves in there - the bores have to remain round & straight.
The bores might turn to sh.. after a few passes under serious load.
Do the head bolts on the ls1 go down into the main webbing area ?
How are the sleeves fitted - are they pinned in - stepped - or do the liners have a lip on them at the top like a KB ?
Will the liners be permanently press in or removeable ?
What head gaskets are available with this bore size ?

JimmyKash

personally, i dont think it is a good idea to have more stroke in you crank than bore in your cylinder walls

i'm not sure as to why, but someone gave a good explaination before

when is someone going to get some ***** and be different and build a DE-STROKED LS1 motor?

or even a BIG BORE motor with a stock crank?

put a sheetmetal manifold and a solid roller cam and rev it to 8000rpm

would be interesting....old 377sbc make some horrendous power if built right and LOVE to run a number in light cars

HOWQUICK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VAP:
<strong>With these huge o.d sleeves what kind of strength do you think there will be left in the decks for gasket seal..
It's not just a matter stuffing the sleeves in there - the bores have to remain round & straight.
The bores might turn to sh.. after a few passes under serious load.
Do the head bolts on the ls1 go down into the main webbing area ?
How are the sleeves fitted - are they pinned in - stepped - or do the liners have a lip on them at the top like a KB ?
Will the liners be permanently press in or removeable ?
What head gaskets are available with this bore size ?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">better do some searches and get the answers for your questions....before your customers see what you are posting.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ozzydragracer

VAP & Howquick,
STRENGTHS LEFT IN DECK FOR SEAL:
Proven already. Decks use deck thickness, see below.
BORES MIGHT TURN TO SH*% AFTER A FEW PASSES UNDER SERIOUS LOAD:
4.350" OD, 4.200" bore, walls are 0.075" thick, more than suffient. I've had 0.060" thickness on an old school alloy small block (linered), using sonic test when still in race car...
DO THE HEAD BOLTS GO DOWN INTO MAIN WEBBING AREA?:
They dont thread at the top of the deck like old school s/b chev, have you looked at yours?
ARE THE LINERS PRESS IN OR REMOVABLE?:
LS1's don't have removable sleeves like BAE forged blocks, or KBST6, etc. They are pressed in.
WHAT HEAD GASKETS ARE AVAILABLE?:
Custom, make your own (copper) or get them made, O-ring though...
We build race engines, but LS1 stuff is new to us too.....
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

1CAMWNDR

iTrader: (21)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JimmyKash:
<strong>.......................................... ...
when is someone going to get some ***** and be different and build a DE-STROKED LS1 motor?

..............................................

put a sheetmetal manifold and a solid roller cam and rev it to 8000rpm
............................................</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is exactly what I said above. If I had the money to build a motor right now it would be a 4.125" bore and 3.25" stroke. That is a stock like 347 inches. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Have some custom 6.5" rods stuffed in there. Solid roller for high rpm stability and power. Stage III heads with huge valves---2.1" intake and 1.65" exhaust??? Of course it would require a custom sheet metal or aluminum intake and BIG headers. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Firebird]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />

VAP

Ozzy drag racer & Howquik
Please don't get me wrong, the LS1 is a breathe of fresh air(I think they're terrific)and I'm enjoying the development of them, but things like thin walls and support for the sleeves ,copper head gaskets ( remebering that there aren't as many head bolts anymore ) makes me a little nervous. Remember we & our customers pay double in our country to go racing because of the dollar. We can't afford to build engines that aren't reliable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

ChrisB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 1CAMWNDR:
<strong>That is exactly what I said above. If I had the money to build a motor right now it would be a 4.125" bore and 3.25" stroke. That is a stock like 347 inches. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></strong>

And it wouldn't be a whole lot faster than stock motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> . You would loose every time to a 4.125" bore 4.00" stroke motor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> Have some custom 6.5" rods stuffed in there. Solid roller for high rpm stability and power. Stage III heads with huge valves---2.1" intake and 1.65" exhaust??? Of course it would require a custom sheet metal or aluminum intake and BIG headers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or do the same thing with 100 more cubic inches and the motor will be much faster.

The only reason to go for less cubic inches is if you are racing in a class with weight breaks or restrictions.

Sure you can get to a point where the extra cubes don't proportionally give you as much of an advantage as you might expect/hope, but they always will.

On a street motor, *if* there is strength/longevity there, I say go for the cubic inches.

Chris

VAP

"Or do the same thing with 100 more cubic inches and the motor will be much faster.

The only reason to go for less cubic inches is if you are racing in a class with weight breaks or restrictions.

Sure you can get to a point where the extra cubes don't proportionally give you as much of an advantage as you might expect/hope, but they always will.

On a street motor, *****IF***** there is strength/longevity there, I say go for the cubic inches.

"CUBES IS ALWAYS THE WINNER "
I'll agreeeee with that ! *****IF***** <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

Ozzydragracer

Chris B & VAP,

I agree. Since 99.9% of those on this forum are streep/strip cars, even bracket race cars,
THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES...REMEMBER THAT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
If you are class racing, such as B/SK to G/SK over thsi side of the pond, or an NHRA Comp Eliminator class, then with the LS1, go for as small a cubic inch as you can, until someone like Dart, Brodix, or even GM come out with an afterrmarket head that FLOWS. Intake manifolds are relatively easy, such as EPD (Carson City), Hogans, etc. If your class is OK with it, then EFI it, such as the Holley Commander 950 set-up (2,000 cfm) or custom. So to the guys who say a smaller set-up like a 422 or 430-440 cuber would win heads up, NO. Cubic inches, all else being equal, will make more HP/torque to win. Why do IHRA Pro Stock cars come in at just over 800 cubic inches, whilst NHRA are limited to 500 cubes?? Because they can (allowed to). These engines have strokes that far exceed their bore size (undersquare), yet they win hands down over a 600 or 700 cuber. That's undersquare...These undersquare engines still make over 2 HP per cube. Enough said. So long as it's reliable...
That's my 0.02c worth.
Cheers <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

LEO

iTrader: (3)

401 all-bore motor has a nice ring to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

mti needs a car to put the first 471 in, i need a motor to put in my car.. coincidence, i think not. mti, put 'er in a crate and i'll try it out and tell u what i think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Trans Am WS6 420

iTrader: (14)

So, did anyone ever go with something near this size? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

XtraCajunSS

iTrader: (2)

Actually the stock LS1 liners are cast in place. Also, yes the head bolts/studs do go into the main webbing of the block they are blind tapped and do not see coolant...

Shane

Smoke_ur_5.0

iTrader: (2)

So anyone gone bigger than 434 yet??

Trans Am WS6 420

iTrader: (14)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Smoke_ur_5.0:
<strong>So anyone gone bigger than 434 yet??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've heard several rumors of a 454 making it's way out of ARE, but nothing confirmed.

Then again, if I ran on the street with a motor like that, I'd still be claiming 346 cubes too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

- Matt

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

Those sleeves and bore + aluminum block = <img border="0" alt="[kaboom]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bomb.gif" />

The only way for the block to have any strength is to use an iron block and fill it all the way.

jeffrey G

so what all would you need to put this massive bore in your car?,,theres gotta be more then just 1200$