FK'N Valve tick won't go away! Lifter preload?
#101
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Originally Posted by bayer-z28
I don't remember posting that last night. I must have been more drunk than I thought.
UPDATE! We figured that we needed 7.350 PR's. The 7.425's were preloading the lifters WAY too much (not ran w/ these, just assembled).
On an almost dry lifter we found the point of preload. The PRLC was adjusted to 7.300 even. It was perfect. We already had a set of 7.350 PR's on hand so we just threw them in. We also have a .040 ~ish head gasket.
Now we just have to wait for Fed Ex to show up w/ the oil pump O ring. Then we're done, besides retuning. (was running a bit lean)
UPDATE! We figured that we needed 7.350 PR's. The 7.425's were preloading the lifters WAY too much (not ran w/ these, just assembled).
On an almost dry lifter we found the point of preload. The PRLC was adjusted to 7.300 even. It was perfect. We already had a set of 7.350 PR's on hand so we just threw them in. We also have a .040 ~ish head gasket.
Now we just have to wait for Fed Ex to show up w/ the oil pump O ring. Then we're done, besides retuning. (was running a bit lean)
Unless heads are milled.
If this measurement is correct (7.350), somewhere in this post you omited or misposted some info.
What lifters were you using? (in case I missed it)
#102
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
In your initial post heads are unmilled and with a MS4 and .054 gasket this makes no sense.
Unless heads are milled.
If this measurement is correct (7.350), somewhere in this post you omited or misposted some info.
What lifters were you using? (in case I missed it)
Unless heads are milled.
If this measurement is correct (7.350), somewhere in this post you omited or misposted some info.
What lifters were you using? (in case I missed it)
Since we yanked the heads again to replace the STOCKERS w/ LS7 lifters, we replaced the head gasket also. It's a thinner GM head gasket, .040~ something.
Originally Posted by bayer-z28
.....
On an almost dry lifter we found the point of preload. The PRLC was adjusted to 7.300 even. It was perfect. We already had a set of 7.350 PR's on hand so we just threw them in. We also have a .040 ~ish head gasket.
On an almost dry lifter we found the point of preload. The PRLC was adjusted to 7.300 even. It was perfect. We already had a set of 7.350 PR's on hand so we just threw them in. We also have a .040 ~ish head gasket.
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Heads are not milled.
First set of gaskets were .054 (12498544 - 2002-2003 LS1/LS6 Head Gasket). New gaskets are 12498543 which I think are 0.040 thick (12498543 - 1997-2001 LS1 Head Gasket)
I think using the .054 head gasket threw everything off although they were the same head gaskets as stock. Hopefully I will have better luck with the thinner gaskets.
First set of gaskets were .054 (12498544 - 2002-2003 LS1/LS6 Head Gasket). New gaskets are 12498543 which I think are 0.040 thick (12498543 - 1997-2001 LS1 Head Gasket)
I think using the .054 head gasket threw everything off although they were the same head gaskets as stock. Hopefully I will have better luck with the thinner gaskets.
#104
Originally Posted by -=Modified=-
Heads are not milled.
First set of gaskets were .054 (12498544 - 2002-2003 LS1/LS6 Head Gasket). New gaskets are 12498543 which I think are 0.040 thick (12498543 - 1997-2001 LS1 Head Gasket)
I think using the .054 head gasket threw everything off although they were the same head gaskets as stock. Hopefully I will have better luck with the thinner gaskets.
First set of gaskets were .054 (12498544 - 2002-2003 LS1/LS6 Head Gasket). New gaskets are 12498543 which I think are 0.040 thick (12498543 - 1997-2001 LS1 Head Gasket)
I think using the .054 head gasket threw everything off although they were the same head gaskets as stock. Hopefully I will have better luck with the thinner gaskets.
#106
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BTW there is no GM gasket with .040 thickness on LS1 motors.
12498543 is the graphite gasket with average .054 thickness
Still doesn't make any sense, unless the LS7 lifters are .050 (at least) taller than stock lifters from roller to cup.
12498543 is the graphite gasket with average .054 thickness
Still doesn't make any sense, unless the LS7 lifters are .050 (at least) taller than stock lifters from roller to cup.
#107
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^ I ASKED for LS7 Lifter dimensions on another thread and the ONLY response I got was someone told me they were identical.
IF the lifters are taller, you should need a shorter PR to maintain the correct length. Same goes w/ if you have a thinner HG, you would need a slightly shorter PR.
The adjustment that we came up w/ (PR length) we both agreed w/. I felt comfortable w/ the decision to go w/ the 7.350's. 7.300 was right at Zero, so we added the .050 for preload.
IF the lifters are taller, you should need a shorter PR to maintain the correct length. Same goes w/ if you have a thinner HG, you would need a slightly shorter PR.
The adjustment that we came up w/ (PR length) we both agreed w/. I felt comfortable w/ the decision to go w/ the 7.350's. 7.300 was right at Zero, so we added the .050 for preload.
Last edited by bayer-z28; 04-01-2007 at 12:19 PM.
#108
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Originally Posted by PREDATOR-Z
BTW there is no GM gasket with .040 thickness on LS1 motors.
12498543 is the graphite gasket with average .054 thickness
Still doesn't make any sense, unless the LS7 lifters are .050 (at least) taller than stock lifters from roller to cup.
12498543 is the graphite gasket with average .054 thickness
Still doesn't make any sense, unless the LS7 lifters are .050 (at least) taller than stock lifters from roller to cup.
I finally have pushrods that are the correct length and my brain is fried from trying to figure all this stuff out.
Here is what is in the car now
...and stock and the replacement I used previously
#109
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!!PROBLEM SOLVED!!
We got the car back together. -=Modified=- and Myself, his car.
Parts Replaced were:
-LS7 Lifters
-New Head gaskets (new bolts too for that matter)
-New thicker O ring for oil pickup tube.
-7.350 PR's. (checked w/ PRLchecker)
Other than the sound of 8 grannys knitting an afghan under the hood, the valvetrain knock is GONE! The oil pressure no longer fluctuates at idle. it sits firm at 60psi w/ the ported pump. Everything works great!
I think that little bastard of an O ring did the trick!
We got the car back together. -=Modified=- and Myself, his car.
Parts Replaced were:
-LS7 Lifters
-New Head gaskets (new bolts too for that matter)
-New thicker O ring for oil pickup tube.
-7.350 PR's. (checked w/ PRLchecker)
Other than the sound of 8 grannys knitting an afghan under the hood, the valvetrain knock is GONE! The oil pressure no longer fluctuates at idle. it sits firm at 60psi w/ the ported pump. Everything works great!
I think that little bastard of an O ring did the trick!
#111
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The cure:
After a TSP MS4 cam and PRC S1 heads with all the options swap I had a very loud knocking coming from piston 7. The bottom is a stock LS1 346.
To make a very long story short here is what was installed that rid the car of knocking.
1. Thicker oil pump o-ring GM# 12557752
2. LS7 lifters GM# 12499225
3. Head gasket GM# 12498543 (Stock was 12498544)
4. TSP 7.350 chromemoly pushrods TSP# 25-7350
FYI
GM BOLT KIT GM# 12498545
TSP LS6 Oil Pump
Stock timing chain
Stock rockers torqued to 22 lbs ft
After a TSP MS4 cam and PRC S1 heads with all the options swap I had a very loud knocking coming from piston 7. The bottom is a stock LS1 346.
To make a very long story short here is what was installed that rid the car of knocking.
1. Thicker oil pump o-ring GM# 12557752
2. LS7 lifters GM# 12499225
3. Head gasket GM# 12498543 (Stock was 12498544)
4. TSP 7.350 chromemoly pushrods TSP# 25-7350
FYI
GM BOLT KIT GM# 12498545
TSP LS6 Oil Pump
Stock timing chain
Stock rockers torqued to 22 lbs ft
#112
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Originally Posted by -=Modified=-
The cure:
After a TSP MS4 cam and PRC S1 heads with all the options swap I had a very loud knocking coming from piston 7. The bottom is a stock LS1 346.
To make a very long story short here is what was installed that rid the car of knocking.
1. Thicker oil pump o-ring GM# 12557752
2. LS7 lifters GM# 12499225
3. Head gasket GM# 12498543 (Stock was 12498544)
4. TSP 7.350 chromemoly pushrods TSP# 25-7350
FYI
GM BOLT KIT GM# 12498545
TSP LS6 Oil Pump
Stock timing chain
Stock rockers torqued to 22 lbs ft
After a TSP MS4 cam and PRC S1 heads with all the options swap I had a very loud knocking coming from piston 7. The bottom is a stock LS1 346.
To make a very long story short here is what was installed that rid the car of knocking.
1. Thicker oil pump o-ring GM# 12557752
2. LS7 lifters GM# 12499225
3. Head gasket GM# 12498543 (Stock was 12498544)
4. TSP 7.350 chromemoly pushrods TSP# 25-7350
FYI
GM BOLT KIT GM# 12498545
TSP LS6 Oil Pump
Stock timing chain
Stock rockers torqued to 22 lbs ft
Glad you got it right. Nothing sweeter than a tick free valvetrain.
Was pr length ever checked and a swipe pattern verified in the first place?
There is a good sticky for cam swaps to be had here. Some basics that often get over looked because of the hydraulic lifters is my guess. Pre-load or "crush" is more critical than is ever emphasized it seems.
I wasnt real techinical when I checked mine but I did make sure how much "crush" I should have. I verified with LME and checked it by feel. (number of turn to seat the rocker). I had the valve cover off recently and decided to verify it more accurately. It was dead center on the swipe and comp cam pr checker verfied that 7.4 was the correct length. I used the #2 cylinder, easiest one to get to.
#113
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^ yeah, we used the PR Length Checker. Adjusted it to 7.300, then installed it. I ended up backing the PRLC out a little then on the tightening sequence we managed to find zero lash. It was a delicate procedure on dry lifters. After checking and rechecking a number of times, the Zero ended up being 7.300. After we were both happy w/ it, we added .050" for preload. We just happened to have a set of 7.350" PR's, so we threw them in.
What do you mean by "swipe pattern"? I might have missed that post.
What do you mean by "swipe pattern"? I might have missed that post.
Last edited by bayer-z28; 04-09-2007 at 12:29 PM.
#114
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Originally Posted by bayer-z28
What do you mean by "swipe pattern"? I might have missed that post.
#115
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^ Huh.. We didn't check that. When the rockers were installed we tried to ensure the rocker tips were centered on the valve stem tips.
We can allways recheck easy as yanking a VC to take a look...
Paging Jason!
We can allways recheck easy as yanking a VC to take a look...
Paging Jason!
#116
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Originally Posted by bayer-z28
^ Huh.. We didn't check that. When the rockers were installed we tried to ensure the rocker tips were centered on the valve stem tips.
We can allways recheck easy as yanking a VC to take a look...
Paging Jason!
We can allways recheck easy as yanking a VC to take a look...
Paging Jason!
#117
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Just take the rockers off the #2 cylinder and use a black marker and color the tips of the valve stems. Then torque the rockers back into place and turn the motor over a few times by hand. Then take the rockers off and look for the where the marker is worn off the valve stem. It should be centered. Like Brad said your most likely fine. But if you wanted to, thats how you do it.
#119
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Hey guys, quick question. I just installed a trex with 921 duals. I've only run it for 20 or 30 secs and it was very noisy. Will this possibly go away once the motor has run for a while, or should it instantly be quiet? I am going to pick up a new belt tomorrow and was hoping once it warmed up that maybe the lifters would fill or what ever. stock heads with 7.4 PR's recommended by thunder racing.
If I didn't touch the oil pump and never had noise before, is it safe to assume it's not the oring?
If I didn't touch the oil pump and never had noise before, is it safe to assume it's not the oring?