Dragula Update: Something must not be right
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
My new dyno #'s are 452rwhp/531tq unlocked...
I make 450rwhp at 4500rpms, and the hp is flat from there to 6500.. and the peak is at 5500rwhp, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the problem. With a big cam you should gain more than 2 HP going from 4500 to 5500 rpm. Also 5500 rpm seems low for peak HP. Don't worry about weight or what is going on down low, this is where you have to look for your HP.
My new dyno #'s are 452rwhp/531tq unlocked...
I make 450rwhp at 4500rpms, and the hp is flat from there to 6500.. and the peak is at 5500rwhp, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is the problem. With a big cam you should gain more than 2 HP going from 4500 to 5500 rpm. Also 5500 rpm seems low for peak HP. Don't worry about weight or what is going on down low, this is where you have to look for your HP.
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Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right so. i dont think it was 3400 stock...but ill add.
you took off about 300lbs and added about 140?
so 3240 plus you...what 180 or so? 3420? maybe 3440.
now lets ghetto it up...
drop the sfc's...15#
drop the mufflers...12-18" work, right?...15#
no need for airbags...thats about 25# w/ steering wheel
drop the big ol' tach and gay A/F gauge...2#
battery....25-30#
k-member you keep talking about....30-40#?
thats 100# easy.
you took off about 300lbs and added about 140?
so 3240 plus you...what 180 or so? 3420? maybe 3440.
now lets ghetto it up...
drop the sfc's...15#
drop the mufflers...12-18" work, right?...15#
no need for airbags...thats about 25# w/ steering wheel
drop the big ol' tach and gay A/F gauge...2#
battery....25-30#
k-member you keep talking about....30-40#?
thats 100# easy.
Thread Starter
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From: Chicago, IL
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right Oops, I have PA k frame and BMR upper and lower control arms.
I came in at 3490-3500 raceweight need to account for gas.
I have some more weight reduction in mind, I got one of those small batteries and plan to install new prototype VFN 4" ram air hood.
-----
Ragtop, what do you think is happening? Usually big tq and small hp = rich a/f to me. But i faxed u the dynosheets.
I came in at 3490-3500 raceweight need to account for gas.
I have some more weight reduction in mind, I got one of those small batteries and plan to install new prototype VFN 4" ram air hood.
-----
Ragtop, what do you think is happening? Usually big tq and small hp = rich a/f to me. But i faxed u the dynosheets.
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right sheesh! full tank o gas? Steve or John adding lead to the car when you're not looking?
if you replace the O2's and go tune AGAIN and dont see 500rw locked and/or 10.xx. sent it back for a Wade-approved aluminum 422. mikey's car is FAST.
Ryan
if you replace the O2's and go tune AGAIN and dont see 500rw locked and/or 10.xx. sent it back for a Wade-approved aluminum 422. mikey's car is FAST.
Ryan
Thread Starter
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From: Chicago, IL
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right I will check the 02's or replace them and dyno again after I validate a few things on the car.
Mikey = 436ci and SR. No idea on compression. But yeah he's moving good.
Roy how much surging at idle from a bad MAF? I get a fair amount of surging.
Mikey = 436ci and SR. No idea on compression. But yeah he's moving good.
Roy how much surging at idle from a bad MAF? I get a fair amount of surging.
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From: Austin, TX
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right mikey said 422 before. the old "427" was undersquare.
either way. lets analyze the difference. john, hyd. 422, iron, 3450-3500lbs., 4l60, right verter, 11.0. Mikey, solid 422, aluminum, 3400lbs, th350, wrong verter, 10.1!!!. .9 for 100-150lbs and a solid cam? surely the difference isnt the trans and cam only. what about terry running the same trans and gear but hitting 10.9 with 80 less cid and -300lbs? does that not add up to anyone else?
either way. lets analyze the difference. john, hyd. 422, iron, 3450-3500lbs., 4l60, right verter, 11.0. Mikey, solid 422, aluminum, 3400lbs, th350, wrong verter, 10.1!!!. .9 for 100-150lbs and a solid cam? surely the difference isnt the trans and cam only. what about terry running the same trans and gear but hitting 10.9 with 80 less cid and -300lbs? does that not add up to anyone else?
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Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right you go about things the hard way John <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" /> .
You can't just take a guess and then make a change unless you plan on doing this for the next 25 years to find the problem.
Look, you first rule out a mechanical problem.
Then you rule out a electronic problem.
Then tweak the motor and then tweak the chassis to take advantage of the power you have.
No exuse not to do this as it's simple routine testing.
Pulling more weight is fine if you think it's running perfect and you just need to eek out a little more from the combo.But it sure does not sound like that is your concern.
Steve
You can't just take a guess and then make a change unless you plan on doing this for the next 25 years to find the problem.
Look, you first rule out a mechanical problem.
Then you rule out a electronic problem.
Then tweak the motor and then tweak the chassis to take advantage of the power you have.
No exuse not to do this as it's simple routine testing.
Pulling more weight is fine if you think it's running perfect and you just need to eek out a little more from the combo.But it sure does not sound like that is your concern.
Steve
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Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right I personally saw a STOCK SCREENED MAF on a 4xxci motor make 485RWHP/49xRWTQ on AREs dyno. It was a BREEZE to tune.
Here is what I think you should do:
Throw in a stock descreened MAF
Throw on new stock plugwires
Throw in New NGK plugs (or whatever plugs you are running at whatever gap you usually run)
Put in that 3 inch Ypipe with DUAL 3 inch cutouts about 20 inches back from the primaries and run a regular 3 inch intermediate pipe and decent quiet muffler like the 2OTL (Just from our conversations about you not liking the noise level of the car)
Then I would throw in STOCK 98 Injectors and reflash the computer to a stock 98 A4 program and hit the dyno to retune everything.
Before strapping the car on the dyno do a compression test (though I doubt the short is hurt but you did run it with 15:! AF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> )
Then dyno tune it with a mixture of 93 octane and 100 octane (like you would run it at the track) and put a FUEL pressure gauge on the car and ATAP the dyno as well.
Check out IAC, TPS, O2 switching etc etc.
Good luck man you'll get it figured out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
Here is what I think you should do:
Throw in a stock descreened MAF
Throw on new stock plugwires
Throw in New NGK plugs (or whatever plugs you are running at whatever gap you usually run)
Put in that 3 inch Ypipe with DUAL 3 inch cutouts about 20 inches back from the primaries and run a regular 3 inch intermediate pipe and decent quiet muffler like the 2OTL (Just from our conversations about you not liking the noise level of the car)
Then I would throw in STOCK 98 Injectors and reflash the computer to a stock 98 A4 program and hit the dyno to retune everything.
Before strapping the car on the dyno do a compression test (though I doubt the short is hurt but you did run it with 15:! AF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> )
Then dyno tune it with a mixture of 93 octane and 100 octane (like you would run it at the track) and put a FUEL pressure gauge on the car and ATAP the dyno as well.
Check out IAC, TPS, O2 switching etc etc.
Good luck man you'll get it figured out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>
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Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right <img border="0" alt="[Banging Head]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_banghead.gif" />
DON'T make all those changes at once! Does history not teach us anything?
Chris, you should know better.
Is this a soap opera PSJ or are you serious about figuring out what's going on with you car?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
DON'T make all those changes at once! Does history not teach us anything?
Chris, you should know better.
Is this a soap opera PSJ or are you serious about figuring out what's going on with you car?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
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Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right I meant do them one at a time LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Not all at once and run like a madman to the dyno LOL!
Cheers,
Chris
Not all at once and run like a madman to the dyno LOL!
Cheers,
Chris
Thread Starter
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From: Chicago, IL
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right I think it's not a good idea to change a lot of things, I try one thing at a time.
I can tell you pretty confidently Steve that I have no shortblock problems but hey I'll do a compression test, remember the heads were off like a few weeks ago and the pistons looked fine and the engine consumes no fluids.
Yeah there is a huge gap 'tween me and Mikey for sure don't look at the ET since I don't have a transbrake and a S/E converter just look at the mph that's the problem.
It's possible that whatever the problem is shows up under the true load I have at the track on the 28" slicks vs on a dynojet.
I can tell you pretty confidently Steve that I have no shortblock problems but hey I'll do a compression test, remember the heads were off like a few weeks ago and the pistons looked fine and the engine consumes no fluids.
Yeah there is a huge gap 'tween me and Mikey for sure don't look at the ET since I don't have a transbrake and a S/E converter just look at the mph that's the problem.
It's possible that whatever the problem is shows up under the true load I have at the track on the 28" slicks vs on a dynojet.
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Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right My 2 cents says your spinning a heavy driveshaft,9 inchers suck hp like crazy, you need 3-4 more degrees of timing, more gear or 26 inch slicks(your giving up too much power through the traps at such low rpms)the trans needs to shift by 6600 reliably and quick and you are still heavy(3500-3100 is 4 tenths easy). The weather has still not been optimal either. 122 is about right for your rwhp and weight. It doesn't look like you have a fuel problem or a maf problem.If the air/fuel ratio stays consistant on the dyno in the 12.9-13.1 range and no KR, then your fine. Questions, Is your cam on a 114 or 112, any advance built in? How good are TTS headers?
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">your car is pretty much drag pimped already</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Damnit! I was drinking my cup of water when I read that and I spilled it when I laughed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
PSJ has the "lead" top option. Looks like a gutted lightweight Formula, but has hidden lead in the body....and under the hood? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I still want to get both of our cars on the same scale. My car has to weigh 3800 lbs based on his scale and level of "drag pimping" hehe.
WANTED: PSJ's missing horsepower!
PSJ has the "lead" top option. Looks like a gutted lightweight Formula, but has hidden lead in the body....and under the hood? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
I still want to get both of our cars on the same scale. My car has to weigh 3800 lbs based on his scale and level of "drag pimping" hehe.
WANTED: PSJ's missing horsepower!
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right Ryan 10.87. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I do have Burger ram air though which accounts for a lot of the difference. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right PSJ,
Try a bigger header. I picked up huge power going from the TTS to the 1 7/8 Dynatech. See my dyno graphs below to see the comparison. I can't guarantee results but its worth a try with your setup. BTW as far as the 9" sucking up power is concerned... I lost 21RWHP going from the stock 10 bolt to the 9" with 4.57's. Thats 4%...
Shane
Try a bigger header. I picked up huge power going from the TTS to the 1 7/8 Dynatech. See my dyno graphs below to see the comparison. I can't guarantee results but its worth a try with your setup. BTW as far as the 9" sucking up power is concerned... I lost 21RWHP going from the stock 10 bolt to the 9" with 4.57's. Thats 4%...
Shane
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From: Chi-Town
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right caras grandam had a screwed up maf. it was pretty noticable....like it would dump a whole lota fuel in, then cut back and do it over again. swap to a stock maf and see if theres any difference. i dont think its the maf though.
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From: Centrifugal City
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right My Long Tubes destroyed an entire set of wires from the heat after just 1 year. After replacing them with new Taylors and FireSleeves my crusing voltage popped up from 12v to 14v, car ran AMAZINGLY smoother and felt like it had some more SOTP.
I'll replace my wires once a year from now on. Your wires are getting old, just replace 'em.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: MelloYellow ]</small>
I'll replace my wires once a year from now on. Your wires are getting old, just replace 'em.
<small>[ October 01, 2002, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: MelloYellow ]</small>
Re: Dragula Update: Something must not be right The car is running right.
Either change the tires or the gear.
Go from there.
Your drive line might be sucking HP.
513 RWTQ is awesome.
Didn't I see a thread with a guy with an ARE 422 pretty much the same combo
as you running 11.3x's?or am I confused?
or-spray a 200 shot.
Or wait for a cool,dry day for 10.8x's @124-125.
Either change the tires or the gear.
Go from there.
Your drive line might be sucking HP.
513 RWTQ is awesome.
Didn't I see a thread with a guy with an ARE 422 pretty much the same combo
as you running 11.3x's?or am I confused?
or-spray a 200 shot.
Or wait for a cool,dry day for 10.8x's @124-125.