PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ???
11-02-2002, 04:59 PM
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PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? Blew the engine. Only symptems were white smoke, low coolant and missing in 2 cylinders. (2 and 7, in sequence of firing order)
So I figure it is only head gaskets, however when I took my intake manifold off, intake ports on the head of one of the problem cylinders, 7, was black and had metal shavings!!
What does this mean?
<small>[ November 02, 2002, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: andy98Z ]</small>
So I figure it is only head gaskets, however when I took my intake manifold off, intake ports on the head of one of the problem cylinders, 7, was black and had metal shavings!!
What does this mean?
<small>[ November 02, 2002, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: andy98Z ]</small>
11-02-2002, 07:45 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? Missing between #2 & #7 would not be a head gasket blown between them..... the cylinders are not next to each other.
Your post implies that you have pics....do you?
Your post implies that you have pics....do you?
11-02-2002, 07:46 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? Missing between #2 & #7 would not be a head gasket blown between them..... the cylinders are not next to each other.
Your post implies that you have pics....do you?
Your post implies that you have pics....do you?
11-02-2002, 07:56 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> What does this mean? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">your F****D thats what it means
11-02-2002, 11:36 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? It means you better find someone on this site that lives near you to help you take that motor apart and out of the car to see the real damage.
11-03-2002, 10:06 AM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? Thr top sectionb of the piston broke. Heres a pic of the head.
<img src="http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v1/8/91/83/54089183fHtqrl_ph.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v1/8/91/83/54089183fHtqrl_ph.jpg" alt=" - " />
11-03-2002, 11:26 AM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? ouch.
You must have been spraying to crack the piston.
Detonated badly.
Stock pistons are as brittle as glass.
You must have been spraying to crack the piston.
Detonated badly.
Stock pistons are as brittle as glass.
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11-03-2002, 04:47 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SJH:
<strong>ouch.
You must have been spraying to crack the piston.
Detonated badly.
Stock pistons are as brittle as glass.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would disagree with you. I have ran a stock bottom end for over a year with 11.6:1 compression and a TNT 100 shot all on pump gas and never had a problem. He may not have detonated, he could have got some extra fuel under the ring and blew the top of the piston off. Detonation typically leaves signs of its presence.
<strong>ouch.
You must have been spraying to crack the piston.
Detonated badly.
Stock pistons are as brittle as glass.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would disagree with you. I have ran a stock bottom end for over a year with 11.6:1 compression and a TNT 100 shot all on pump gas and never had a problem. He may not have detonated, he could have got some extra fuel under the ring and blew the top of the piston off. Detonation typically leaves signs of its presence.
11-03-2002, 05:52 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? well I was running 200 shots for 3 years straight on my 98 stock block.Don't mean it was a good thing to do.
Yeah they will hold up if your very careful with the tune.
I did crack a 2nd land eventually.
I caught it in time before any motor damage was done.
Remove piston from bore and chunk falls out, bore holding it together.
So what happens when it comes apart in a running motor, the above pic and sometimes much worse.
I don't buy your fuel under the ring theory blowing a piston apart at all.
Maybe in a nitro motor, or with a huge shot that's possible.
Simple fact is these are very brittle cast hyper pistons.
Detonation causes a very sharp frequency that will just break hyper pistons apart.
I cracked a few in half when I pressed them off the rods.
Brittle brittle brittle.
Yeah they will hold up if your very careful with the tune.
I did crack a 2nd land eventually.
I caught it in time before any motor damage was done.
Remove piston from bore and chunk falls out, bore holding it together.
So what happens when it comes apart in a running motor, the above pic and sometimes much worse.
I don't buy your fuel under the ring theory blowing a piston apart at all.
Maybe in a nitro motor, or with a huge shot that's possible.
Simple fact is these are very brittle cast hyper pistons.
Detonation causes a very sharp frequency that will just break hyper pistons apart.
I cracked a few in half when I pressed them off the rods.
Brittle brittle brittle.
11-03-2002, 06:04 PM
#10
Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? If you dont buy my "fuel getting under the rings", then ya might wanna learn a lil about engines. Very common thing to happen esp if the engine is tuned extremely rich or the nitrous kit is pilled wrong.
11-03-2002, 06:29 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you dont buy my "fuel getting under the rings", then ya might wanna learn a lil about engines</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well let's see. I only have been using n20 for 20 years.
plates, direct ports, dry you name it.
cars and jet boats.
I build my own motors also and design and build my own n20 systems.
So you don't need to tell me to learn about engines or n20.
I have heard of this. On big shots and with nitro.
Sorry , don't see it happening on any sort of small shot.
You want to believe the stock pistons failed from that, then that's fine with me.
plates, direct ports, dry you name it.
cars and jet boats.
I build my own motors also and design and build my own n20 systems.
So you don't need to tell me to learn about engines or n20.
I have heard of this. On big shots and with nitro.
Sorry , don't see it happening on any sort of small shot.
You want to believe the stock pistons failed from that, then that's fine with me.
11-03-2002, 07:51 PM
#12
Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? I didnt reply to this thread to start a bickering contest. At this point neither one of us are helping the guy who has the blown motor. Im in no way doubting your knowledge of engine building or nitrous, however just because you PERSONALLY havent seen something doesnt mean it cant happen. I just cracked a piston last week and pulled the motor apart. I had no signs of detonation anywhere, I did however have sever signs of fuel getting under the ringland and lifting the corner of the piston off. This isnt the first time I have seen it either. Best of wishes
11-03-2002, 10:26 PM
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Re: PICS... help! Blew motor, thought it was just head gaskets, Metal in intake port! ??? Ok no more bickering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I have heard of this theory. I have to wonder if it does happen, then how it happens?
The stock ls1 ring pack is gapped to not allow gas pressure to build between the rings.
Top gap at .009-.014 and the 2nd at .026 or so.
Top gap closes even further in a running motor, but 2nd closes much less, this leaves a nice path for gasses to leave and not build pressure and unseat the top ring and also helps to keep the oil rings cleared. This is current gapping theory.
I would think it would help raw fuel to escape also.I could be wrong.
IMO something has to be way off with the ign or jetting to allow so much raw fuel to build between the top and 2nd ring.
A while back I played with methanol and n20 with .080 jetting.
In tuning I dumped in enough methanol to blow out the spark by the time it hit top of 2nd gear.Now you would think if ever I was going to run into this phenomenom it would have been then.
I have cracked 5 hyper pistons over the years.
Always 2nd ring lands.
Of those 5 pistons I have never once melted off a plug electrode in that hole. I did not at the time think I detonated.But I am convinced at some point I had to have. IMO the cast hyper pistons come apart easily when they get rung by the frequencies of detonation.
You don't have to mangle a plug or have any signs.It can happen in a hurry.
I have melted off part of the dome on forgings but that was from high temps-lean mix.
So then if this did happen, then I have to ask andy98Z just what sort of system, jetting, timing and fuel octane you were running?
Also another likely scenario if it was not detonation, is top ring end gap butting. Stock ring gap is WAY tight for a n20 motor.
If the ring does butt it can easily pull off the lands.
What I am saying is, yes your point is taken and yes this can happen but I don't think it is very common at low jetting.
My point is, at this low level of jetting we are most likely talking about, that the more probable explanation is the motor rattled in one hole and cracked the weak factory piston at some point and it let go.
I am not a piston expert though and yes I am going on personal experiences with n20 and piston problems.
Maybe Diamond piston or some n20 guys like the ARE crew would like to shed some thoughts?
Steve
I have heard of this theory. I have to wonder if it does happen, then how it happens?
The stock ls1 ring pack is gapped to not allow gas pressure to build between the rings.
Top gap at .009-.014 and the 2nd at .026 or so.
Top gap closes even further in a running motor, but 2nd closes much less, this leaves a nice path for gasses to leave and not build pressure and unseat the top ring and also helps to keep the oil rings cleared. This is current gapping theory.
I would think it would help raw fuel to escape also.I could be wrong.
IMO something has to be way off with the ign or jetting to allow so much raw fuel to build between the top and 2nd ring.
A while back I played with methanol and n20 with .080 jetting.
In tuning I dumped in enough methanol to blow out the spark by the time it hit top of 2nd gear.Now you would think if ever I was going to run into this phenomenom it would have been then.
I have cracked 5 hyper pistons over the years.
Always 2nd ring lands.
Of those 5 pistons I have never once melted off a plug electrode in that hole. I did not at the time think I detonated.But I am convinced at some point I had to have. IMO the cast hyper pistons come apart easily when they get rung by the frequencies of detonation.
You don't have to mangle a plug or have any signs.It can happen in a hurry.
I have melted off part of the dome on forgings but that was from high temps-lean mix.
So then if this did happen, then I have to ask andy98Z just what sort of system, jetting, timing and fuel octane you were running?
Also another likely scenario if it was not detonation, is top ring end gap butting. Stock ring gap is WAY tight for a n20 motor.
If the ring does butt it can easily pull off the lands.
What I am saying is, yes your point is taken and yes this can happen but I don't think it is very common at low jetting.
My point is, at this low level of jetting we are most likely talking about, that the more probable explanation is the motor rattled in one hole and cracked the weak factory piston at some point and it let go.
I am not a piston expert though and yes I am going on personal experiences with n20 and piston problems.
Maybe Diamond piston or some n20 guys like the ARE crew would like to shed some thoughts?
Steve
