helicoil

iTrader: (104)

Yes, I know HP could be higher, I was expecting 420 ish RWHP. I somewhat tried to follow the Mamo build. It is a FAST 90 done by him, AFR 205's, and a very similar cam. Some have said it is the 9" and the fact that the converter was unlocked during the dyno pulls. I have heard 10-15RWHP loss from the 9" and maybe 20RWHP from locking the converter during the pull, so who knows. I am not sure, still NEW to alot of the tuning aspect, there could be a little left in the tune.

Looking to get it figured out. Ready to invest into some tuning software. Looking for recommendations on what to get.

I should hit the track again the week of the 15th. I think I will hit the 11's for sure this time, my converter was a way off for the combo first time out.

P.S. You will love the lift! Especially for these cars I wrenched for 15 years, so it helps alot with side jobs that pay for the hobby. My car was a low mileage car so it was clean to start with.

RoDan

Good runs for first time out man. My ultra mild 408 with stock 5.3 heads (stock valves too), and an ultra mild cam, with a Vig converter (flashes to about 3500 according to the logging) ran a 12.02@111 with 1.68 60' 2 nights ago in humid air at the Memphis track (where I live, the one you will be running at next weekend). Your car definitely has more left in it for sure. As my car is SEVERELY limited by heads and cam...which is why the speed is so slow on the big end. Oh, and soem heads up last night at the Holly Springs track, just south of Memphis the DA got down to 1300 ft. so if the weather improves, expect good times at the LSX shootout, even if it is during the day.

p.s. I didn't build the engine, I bought the car like this. I would have done it right the first time with good heads and cam, which are in the future for this car.

RoDan

What pressure you run in your ET street radials? I run about 24 in mine. I run ET Street radials on a 16'' rim though. I had a worn set of ET Streets on my car before, and my best 60' was a 1.74. The radials seem to bite better off idle with my 3500 stall, but they don't bite as well torquing it up...I think it has to do with less sidewall flex or something. Oh well, my best 60' was a 1.62 with the radials. They are a great tire.

I have a feeling your car will fly at Memphis, the track prep has been wicked the last few times I've been out there over the last 2 weeks (almost over prepping, lol) they are spraying and torching it after every few passes so it's pretty damn sticky.

Gary Z

What MAF Sensor are you using? The MAF Sensor shown in post #72 appears to be the stock 75 mm unit. If so, I assume you know that this is a significant restriction with your setup. An 85 mm LS6 MAF would help. You would, of course, need to update the MAF calibration table. I recommend HPTuners software. It is powerful and easy to use.

hammertime

iTrader: (1)

Even if it is stock, is should not be a 10rwhp restriction. This is from the Mod Guide Sticky in the External section.

Gary Z

I was rethinking/editing this while you were replying. I don't know exactly how much difference it will make but a 90 mm intake and TB should have an 85 mm MAF. If the MAF is stock, it is undoubtedly because Helicoil does not yet have tuning software. The stock MAF may well support 500 hp before reaching its upper limit. That does not mean it is not a significant restriction at lower airflow.

Gary Z

Also, what injectors are you using? If stock then you are almost certainly running out of fuel. My stock injectors were near 100% duty-cycle at 360rwhp.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Ok, lets clear up something about the stock maf being a possible restriction. There is a difference bewteen the calibration being a restriction, and it being a flow restriction. Yes, the stock maf calibration is good up to and maybe over 500hp, but that doesn't mean that the flow characteristics of a stock 75mm maf are not a restriction. The guy has a 90mm FAST intake cylinder heads that flow very well, and I would dare say that if he removed the maf completely, or went to a larger diameter, hence better flowing maf, he would see an increase in power as the stock maf is probably a bottleneck in the intake charge.

It's no different than having catalytic converters on a car with long tubes. Can a car make over 500hp with cats, yes, sure, I bet it's been done. But that doesn't mean that they aren't robbing horsepower. That same car would make an additional 10-20hp if they cats were removed.

So lets be clear about the difference between MAF's max hp calibration, and max flow. The calibration may not be a restriction, but the flow might be.

patriotformula

iTrader: (28)

Pulling the engine outta the car is definately the way to go......

pdd

iTrader: (3)

nice build-so cleannice garage too

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

Yes, I do still have the stock MAF. I didn't look too hard at the MAF until now. You are right, it doesn't seem right having a 90MM TB/intake and a
75MM MAF. Right now I am trying to figure out the dip in my HP around the 5800 RPM area. Many have commented that it is a valvetrain problem. I don't feel it 'seat of the pants'.

It has been recommended to try the .060" shim under the rocker and a little 'more' lifter pre-load. I am running .075" now, and there is a little valvetrain noise, nothing crazy though. I can't imagine I don't have enough spring with where I have them set, but I suppose it is a possibility. I have yet to pop off a valve cover since getting it back together. I have plans to do so soon and try some things out and revisit the dyno. Is anyone else with this similar set-up in need of running 155# seat pressure and 400# open - 8019 AFR springs or Patriot Gold EXTREMES??

I stored some data I logged with my Tech II over the weekend that I can compare to the stock readings from before I took apart the car at WOT. I will post the MAF/RPM/MAP data to see if there are signs of the air stalling or backing up. I have the m recorded but haven't had the time to view them.
One thing that did stand out was a MAP of 'only' 94 KPA at peak RPM. BARO was 99KPA for the day, so this may indicate a small vacuum being created in the intake tract - possible MAF too small??

I haven't got the tuning software yet, still waiting to get a cheap laptop.

My injectors are rated at 37lbs. Plenty of fuel. I will admit the car may seem a touch soft from a dead hit (racetrack). The reason for the 1.83 60's. I attributed this to the very tight converter.

When things are situated with the engine and tune I will swap to a SS4000 I have for the next hit at the track in the spring. I am very certain I will run well into the 11's, just the converter alone would have done that this year IMO. After getting the engine to make power through the top and adding a little more timing 28 or 29 degrees from the 24 I have now and possibly changing the MAF I think I will be able to hit 11.60's, or at least 11.70's for sure.

I'll continue to update my findings......and results on the dyno through the next couple of months.

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

Didn't take the car to Memphis, didn't want to beat on it until I have it 100%, looks like it will be next spring now before I get back to the track, they closed ours last Sat. Good news is the dyno is open year round!

At least I have baseline now.

I ran 20lbs in mine, bit good enough to almost bog the car. I only got a 1.83 60', but I am not leaving very hard with such a tight converter and no clutch pedal to sidestep.

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

Re-dynoed car and made similar HP/TQ (402 RWHP/367RWTQ Un-locked), BUT the dip in the dyno graphs are gone. The only changes made were in the valvetrain. I went to a Patriot Gold EXTREME dual spring installed at the same 1.750" height, added the .050" shim under the Yella Terra pedastal mount, and installed a 7.500" OAL pushrod. The NEW springs increased my seat pressure from 135lbs to 160lbs and raised the OPEN pressure from 360lbs to 410lbs. The longer pushrod, even with the increase in rocker arm height (.050" shim) gave me between
1 1/2 and 1 3/4 turns of lifter pre-load versus the 3/4 turn I had previously with the 7.350" pushrods.

The first dyno graph is the before and the second dyno graph is the after.

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t...3601stDyno.jpg

2nd Graph after valvetrain correction

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t...angeedited.jpg

Irocss85

iTrader: (1)

is this a LOCKED vs UNlocked retest also? I see a DROP in torque across the board? eitherway, you could look at it another way. the dip isnt gone, the SPIKE before the "dip" is now missing? or is this maybe a diff. dyno so slightly lower tq readings? the second graph is very hard to read, so I may be wrong in all this thought.


:EDIT: never mind, just noticed the first stupid graph has the TQ on a diff. scale. got I hate when they do that. why dont all the damn dynoshops make these sheets look the same? some sort of industry standard? anyways, is the valvetrain noise quiter now?

what were the temps at the track when you ran? if that 4000 stall you got is worth a poop, it should put you solidly into 1.5x 60 times. I got a 3:42 gear and I still hit 1.61-1.65 in 95deg. heat. my car only dynoed 320 unlocked on a mustang dyno. I bet your somewhere around 40more HP then my car if you dynoed same day as me, same mustang dyno. you should be doin alot better then 11.6x. I know I could have run 11.5x atleast with 3:73 gears or 4.10's. I cross the finish line at 5100rpm (conv. locked) with my 26" tall ET streets and 3:42 gears.
what are your shift points?

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

Yes the numbers are virtually the same between dyno runs. The valvetrain is a little quieter, never was really noisy though. Both pulls were with an un-locked torque converter.

Shift points were set at 6300 RPM, the tuner set them down to 6100 - said from his experience the car should run quicker. I really didn't agree, although I am not sure, but would think you would want to ring it out past peak HP a few hundred RPM or so to stay up in the RPM when the next gear hits???

I am too optimistic about the SS4000 Yank. If I can get into the low 1.60'a or even a high 1.50 60ft, it should run much better. Spring can't come quick enough to find out. When I went to the track it was about 60 degrees, so I had some pretty nice weather. That 1.83 sixty is soft.

I will try to upload some vids sometime here. They take forever on photobucket.

I don't race it with the converter locked, the converter is only set to lock in fourth above 55 mph and with light load. If I can see an 11.60 that will be great, the power is there to do it. I know it is in just cutting a good sixty, and I need to leave harder to do that.

After driving the car some I am thinking about a 3.42, even with the overdrive the 3.70 gear and stock wheels and tires limit fast highway cruising. I am not sure how much they will affect the goal??

Irocss85

iTrader: (1)

yeah, shift points should be a few hundred PAST peak HP, exactly right, so when you hit the next gear, you dont bog it down in the low rpms. you need to experiment with the shift points when you get the tuning software. every combo will be different.

about the 1.83 60foot, how are you launching? are you sitting at the light at a dead idle, then punching it? or raising the idle speed against the brake to launch? you should be doin it the first way. just sit there at a dead idle, then punch it when the 2 or 3 yellow lights (adj. to fit reaction time). that will allow your stall to flash up to its max efficiency or max effect. if you rev. against the brake at the light, you'll soften the launch. you can do that to help with traction on a slipery track surface if you find your not getting traction.

in my car, locking the convertor is worth .15 and like 3-4 mph. why arent you locking it? only lock it in 2 and 3rd though. maybe set it so it will only lock at WOT above certain mph (that correspond with say, above 4000 rpm).

what tire/wheels do you race with? my ET streets are taller then my street tires, so they cut down the effective gearing compared to the street tires. basically, the ET streets are taller, and it acts like Ive lowered to say, 3:23 gears. know what I mean?

I had 3:73 gears last year, broke them right off the bat this spring. had to go back to the stock 3:42 gears (was a t56 car orig.). I HATED the difference around town. leaving stop lights the rpms were actually HIGHER with the 3:42 gears instead of the 3:73 gears cause with the stall conv. slipping like it does at low rpm, the eng. had to work alot harder to move the car at low speeds/rpms. so in the end, I have to push the gas pedal to accelerate at the same rate of speed from a stop light.

you will slow down if you switch to 3:42 gears.

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

Yes, I will experiment with the shift points, makes sense, just what I thought. I was raising the idle slightly, maybe to 1200 when I went to the track. It really just acts super tight, on the street with sticky tires it will flash to 2600 or so.

I was told by FLT to not lock the converter, maybe I should call Yank about it?

I race the car with stock 00 SS wheels with a 275/40-17 ET Street Radial, they are heavy....

It does make sense about the taller gear working the converter harder. I may end up keeping the 3.70 for now.

I just picked up some HPTuner professional software, when it arrives I will have to start playing and learning.

Your car is running strong!

Soul TKR

iTrader: (4)

whether the car is fast or not, it definately looks to be a reliable build

helicoil

iTrader: (104)

Thanks, still working out a bug or two which is to be expected with any build as complete as this done all at one time. Noisy Moser rear end is one of them. Only have about 300 miles on evrything so far.

I am confident it will hit the initial goals of 11.80's in the spring. I just didn't have everything sorted out when I went the first time

Irocss85

iTrader: (1)

yeah do ask them what they recomend (or dont recomend) Id be very intersted to hear IF they dont want you to lock it at the track. and why.